<p>It’s also possible that LadyGoGo was referring to Princeton.</p>
<p>I am sure that, at either of his choices, the OP’s son can receive a high-quality education that will challenge him and position him for the best mathematics graduate programs in the country, which admittedly probably don’t comprise Yale. Yale is, in my gathering, a better place to receive an undergraduate education than Harvard is; that your son seems to agree makes the choice clear.</p>
<p>^^^^^correct, Princeton would have the perceived better undergraduate education - comparable to Yale’s, and yet the best Math Department of the three…</p>
<p>I don’t know, I only have one S in college, at Harvard, but he’s doing very well and I’m extremely satisfied. He has had no shortage of senior faculty involvement, across many different subjects, and more extra-curricular opportunity than I ever imagined possible. So are Princeton and Yale better undergraduate education? I just can’t imagine a better undergraduate education.</p>
<p>S was accepted at Princeton, but didn’t care for the atmosphere when he visited and crossed it off his list.</p>
<p>^^^^so then that settles it. The importance of the quality of Math department doesn’t figure as much in the decision. This now appears to be a Yale enrollment decision.</p>
<p>He attended Vistas. Also went to Bulldog Days and Princeton’s admitted students day. He like Harvard, liked Princeton less and, as noted, loved Yale. Yale has put on a big recruiting push and his three visits to Yale were all been great. Like you all, it’s sometimes easy for us to say, “Go to Yale, you love it.” Both schools are fantastic. However, again, given the strength of the Harvard math department (“C’mon, Dad, it’s Harvard. How can I say no?”), he’s struggling with the decision. </p>
<p>Thanks for all your thoughts.</p>
<p>Sorry for the typo. I meant to write: "you’ll love it.</p>
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<p>you dropped Princeton easily, even though its Math Department is at or above Harvard’s. So enrolling at Yale should not be a problem here, if one is to belief what is truly important for your son in making the decision.</p>
<p>LadyGoGo, what is your justification for saying Princeton’s math department is dramatically better than Harvard’s? I think they are substantially equivalent for undergrads, with the difference being Math 55, which matters for only approximately 10 students per year, but may make a difference for those students, or it may not.</p>
<p>*on rereading, I guess you didn’t say that. But that’s the subtext I get.</p>
<p>The only reason I would advise your son to attend Harvard in this case is if he were confident he could and would commit the time and effort to taking 55 at Harvard for sure (in which case turning down the opportunities available at Harvard and MIT would be very difficult). I don’t think “probably” thinking he would start in 55 would be strong enough, because a lot of people go to Harvard thinking they’ll probably take 55 and end up in 25. Yale is easily a top 10 undergrad math department, and he might be more motivated to do well at a place where 1) he enjoys the environment more and 2) he might stand out more where there is no 55 crowd hanging over the rest of the department to grab the best research opportunities, etc.</p>
<p>Is he into contest math now? How is he doing in that?</p>
<p>There are many reasons to be interested in Harvard Math Department (if there is some particular math field your child is interested in, and Harvard happens to have lots of people in the field, or some sort of social reasoning), but don’t have Math 55 be the main reason. Quite frankly, you will learn the equivalent taking 301, 310 and 350 at Yale (Intro Analysis, Complex Analysis, and Algebra), and taking them all at once will result in a similar sized homework load as Math 55, but with extra lecture time! </p>
<p>What sort of math background does your child have?</p>
<p>And if your child likes Yale socially, but likes Harvard Math Department, just get the best of both world: Yale undergrad and Harvard Math grad!</p>
<p>I think there is a special culture in the undergrad math department at Harvard. My S was a Math 55 student and his closest friend from Harvard was in the class with him, as were a couple of other very good friends. For him to be in a relatively large group of freshman who were all working at his level, spending all that time working together on the psets, was a great thing, especially after years of being the youngest kid in every math class. (And still all these kids were very involved in non-math ECs.) His profs knew him well enough that he didn’t have any problem getting recommendations for an REU after freshman year.</p>
<p>(My S also visited P’ton and didn’t like the “vibe”. He came home after one day, despite having a hotel reservation, and never applied. Also, he was not that interested in the math contests.)</p>
<p>Thank you all for your responses! At present, our son is not very interested in math contests. He has taken several college classes, including complex analysis, abstract algebra, and a graduate level number theory course.</p>
<p>yaleorharvard: It sounds like your son’s preparation is similar to my son’s, and he thrived in Math 55, with a lot of lot of work. I don’t think he would drop back due to insufficient preparation. Whether he wants the Math 55 experience almost wholly depends on how hungry he is for the work. I agree with 1moremom, very much.</p>
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<p>The table makes more sense if you eliminate the blatant international recruiting effects and consider US high school graduates only. </p>
<p>Yale’s only top 100 finisher is a 2008 IMO gold medalist (perfect score, one of three in the world) from China, brought in last year to improve their Putnam results. Stanford brings in one or two Korean gold medalists per year. Several of MIT’s high finishers were on the Chinese olympiad team – one of them twice, which is a very rare qualification. Caltech recruits US IMO team members plus some from outside the US, and has very few nonrecruited students in the top ranks. These recruits are essentially graduate students, and their performance on the Putnam competition does not reflect the actual level of the undergraduate math program at their respective institutions.</p>
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<p>Considering US contestants only, Harvard and MIT draw most of the best students, followed by Princeton. This is consistent with expectations based on the fame of the schools, quality of the math departments, and ordinary admissions “yield”. All other schools are completely dependent upon recruitment for their Putnam rankings, since they do not have a deep enough pool to muster three or more high finishers by natural processes.</p>
<p>Less than 2 days left to decide. We don’t know what he’s going to do. Thanks for all of your responses.</p>
<p>My S was the same way. If they’d given him six months to decide, it would have taken six months. Good luck.</p>
<p>The decision has been made: it’s Yale!</p>
<p>Thanks for all the help. We’re very happy for him.</p>
<p>Yaleorharvard,</p>
<p>Hi. I spotted your thread posted last year at this time. My son is having similar question in hand as we speak now. He has narrowed down options between Chicago, Caltech and Yale. He loves Yale’s atmosphere but not quite sure its strength in Math. He was recruited by Science and Engineering LL and visited Yale once, and he is back there now for the Bull Dog Day. He is determined to do math major and possibly double major in economics. My son loves music besides math. </p>
<p>Since your son has been there for a year now, would you share some his experience with us? How happy he is at Yale? Maybe there is an opportunity for my son to chat with him? My son is at Yale now till tomorrow morning.</p>
<p>Thank you in advance for your sharing.</p>
<p>Unitesgd</p>
<p>Yale–math?? No, not unless he or she isn’t a serious math student. My S had the same choices and after lots of debate deiced to come to Harvard–bc of 55. Although he really liked the Math Pirate at Chi-- so much so that he wrote the professor to tell him he wasn’t going to attend Chicago but Harvard, the prof wrote back that bc he was going to Harvard, it was a fine decision–but that he was going to do 55–meant that he was certifiably insane :-)</p>
<p>Caltech, Chi, Harvard-- all are excellent-- Yale–meh.</p>