<p>Wait, are you folks maintaining that crime rates are even across the different races? How many of these neighborhoods (often described on CC as “sketchy”) that detract from colleges’ locations (Clark University, Trinity College, Penn, Columbia, Catholic U., USC, Georgia Tech, Yale, etc.) are white or Asian neighborhoods?</p>
<p>Typical PC reaction: “I, ah…just thought the neighborhood looked ah…‘sketchy.’ I really didn’t notice if there was any racial theme going on, because I’m ah…race-blind.”</p>
<p>xiggi - nothing I have read leads me to believe that it was appropriate to arrest this guy. I don’t know how to say it any more clearly. Since I believe the cop arrested him inappropriately, I am speculating as to why that might happen - other than the possibility that he is a racist. Maybe he wanted off the street early that day and was happy to spend the rest of the day doing the paper work necessary to an arrest. I was married to a cop who policed one of the most dangerous cities in the country. He spent years in uniform and was also part of an undercover repeat offenders unit. Never in a million years would he, or any of his colleagues that I knew well, have arrested this man. They would have been more likely to take him out for drinks after they got off duty.</p>
<p>"Barrons, No. What’s disproportionate is the conviction rate and the lengths of sentences meted out by judges and juries – after people of different races commit crimes of equal seriousness. </p>
<p>The logical question to ask is, in X location, of all the arrests for breaking-and-entering, disorderly conduct, or manslaughter… how many black arrestees were convicted and served time, versus how many white arrestees.</p>
<p>And before one of the males onboard decides to stereotype me or my ideas (or those of other women) because of being a middle-class white female, please know that I spent several years teaching inside the world’s largest maximum security prison (Jackson, Michigan). I was not afraid to stand up in front of convicted murderers and rapists week in and week out, to deliver college courses, with an armed guard posted outside the classroom. For much of that time, in my first year there, I was very visibly pregnant and taught until a week before delivery. There are many, many stories out there. White skin privilege is something I was accorded but do not accept.</p>
<p>So watch yer stereotyping – in all directions, please.) </p>
<p>That has to be the most unsupported statement ever made here. For one thing we are not talking about relative sentences but who COMMITS the great proportion of crime. The answer is as clear as the fact that Obama is President. By any measure the rate of most criminal acts is significantly higher for blacks than for whites, asians, and hispanics. Now we can argue about the reasons for this and the results such as more average jail time per crime, etc but that is another group of issues.</p>
<p>Your thinking presumes that everyone arrested has actually committed the crime fpr which they were arrested. Why even bother with a court system, then? I think you just made the cop-on-the-beat the entire judicial system.</p>
<p>My point is that if you track what becomes of arrested people of color, from start to finish, for the same crimes as arrested whites, the outcomes are completely different. And as some are saying on this thread,
even whether or not someone is arrested for identical conduct differs across races.</p>
<p>It’s not fair to say, essentially: “Look at all those dark people in prison” as if that’s all there is to consider, or to rationalize what happened on Gates’ porch.</p>
<p>I don’t understand why rude behavior would be equated with illegal behavior.</p>
<p>Taking the police officer’s version of the facts as true, Gates was guilty of bad manners. The arresting officer was guilty of violating the Fourth Amendment by arresting Gates without a reasonable suspicion that he had committed or was about to commit a crime. The police report itself states that the officer had already seen and accepted two forms of ID at the time of the arrest.</p>
<p>Why is it acceptable to arrest someone for displaying bad manners on his own property? Why would a display of bad manners mitigate an illegal, unconstitutional use of force on the part of the officer?</p>
<p>Not only black people, but any people who are different from the predominant race are often seen as sub-human–with the attendant repercussions. Think the Japanese in and after World War 2 and the Vietnamese during the Vietnam conflict.</p>
<p>Someone mentioned earlier in the thread that Gates had been asked to verify his legal residence with Harvard Officials. I did not know whether or not that was the case. I assumed that that bit of information was culled from one of the many news reports on the incident, and commented upon by the poster who stated it.</p>
<p>Xiggi, I have never accused you of racism in any manner, veiled or otherwise, nor have I ever felt such a thing has been warranted. I’m interested in knowing why you felt I was suggesting that you were. If it’s the totality of my above three paragraphs, I assure you they were all thoughts expressed as non-sequiturs, none of them having anything to do with the others. The mention of your possible feelings for Prof Gates, and Edvest’s racist commentary in the same post might be, I realize now, the reason you thought I might be in some way lumping the two of you together. If that’s the case, I assure you that I’ve never been given to confused the two of you as being allies in racial politics, and never would. We don’t always agree politically, but I always respect your POV, finding it (for the most part) well reasoned and thought-provoking.</p>
<p>Now, concerning my question about your perhaps having “issues” with Prof. Gates, I’ll admit that my speculation is based on fairly thin material. Mostly, it stems from my somewhat amorphous recall of how you’ve spoken of other liberals of the "black intelligentsia in the past (such as Cornell West, and “The Former Miss Robinson”). Not much regard there—from my recall, which admittedly might be somewhat hazy. And you’ve suggested that Prof. Gate’s motivation for expressing outrage over his experience stems from a desire to create fodder for a PBS Special—In my view, that’s an extremely cynical view which if true, would reveal Prof. Gates to be mercenary and disingenuous to an appalling degree. I happen to very much disagree with that viewpoint. Perhaps you came at this discussion having held no prior opinion/impression of Henry Louis Gates, though I have no doubt that you’re one of the .01 percent of Americans who knew who he was. I was musing “aloud” (perhaps inappropriately) that your prior opinion of him might be coloring your take on this turn of events. Certainly my own past experience, store of anecdotal accounts culled from friends and family, and knowledge of history colors my own. And I’ll admit that my news and commentary-provided impression of “Skip Gates” in the past does so also.</p>
<p>"It happened when our house alarm went off at 2 a.m. a few months ago, on a night the electricity was off and the neighborhood was dark as pitch. WANH!! WANH!! WANH!! It sent my wife and me leaping out of bed. I sprinted downstairs with a baseball bat, our Rottweiler and a flashlight to confront any possible intruder. I checked all the windows and doors, the dog yawned, and it quickly became apparent that there was a short circuit from a rear door.</p>
<p>My wife called the alarm company and gave them the code for a false alert.</p>
<p>Then two cops showed up.</p>
<p>The first thing they did was ask me to step outside. The second thing they did was to ask me for my identification, to prove that I lived there. They were demanding and they were not friendly. They kept their flashlights in my face. They did not take my word for it that it was my house, though I was as white as they were. "</p>
<p>I used to work with Neely, and I used to know him quite well. It surprises me that he somehow thinks that his situation is similar to what Henry Louis Gates experienced. I also think that he may have been somewhat naive about the police’s response. I’ve had my house alarm go off, and police have shown up. They have never decided to look through the house. I find myself very curious about why police decided to do that with Neeley.</p>
<p>Gates’ house alarm didn’t go off. From what I’ve read, when he answered the door, he had no idea why the police were there. After he showed his ID that demonstrated that he lived there, I can’t think of any reason why police would have insisted that he go outside, and why they would have insisted on calling Harvard police. </p>
<p>This was perhaps lost in the hundreds of posts, but I ALSO firmly believe that Prof. Gates should have never been arrested. I believe that people here might be confused about my position on this issue. I am convinced that the Cambridge Police is entirely capable of bullying citizens, fabricating charges, and be obnoxious. I happen to think that almost every one who has posted here has a some experience with an out-of-control police force. It is rather easy to imagine that the relations between “dynamic” college students and members of the local police can be strenuous and that a healthy suspicion exists. </p>
<p>However, I maintain that using the race card (and seemingly some here are tossing entire decks) to “condemn” the arrest is preposterous. Professor Gates was not arrested because he was a black person; he was arrested because he was a person who believed his recognition as an academic leader at Harvard would allow him to treat the police without one ounce of respect. </p>
<p>Somewhere one could expect the donut-lovers to be aloof and obnoxious; a uniform and a gun does that to you! More is expected from a member of the Harvard faculty. </p>
<p>Trying to excuse his behavior by painting him as a victim is what annoys me in this case, and especially the extent of misquoting and misrepresenting “facts” over and over!</p>
<p>“Trying to excuse his behavior by painting him as a victim”</p>
<p>If you agree that the arrest was inappropriate (and illegal, by my reckoning), how is he not a victim of police overreaching?</p>
<p>You don’t NEED an “excuse” to be obnoxious on your own property. That’s the American way. If Gates said everything the officer claimed he said, I couldn’t care less. Take it up with Miss Manners.</p>
<p>PH, I do thank you for your reply. You were correct that I lumped the three elements of your post. Before answering in the manner I did, I went and searched my posts (on the new forum) and did not see a single mention of Prof. Gates --plenty about Gates at Harvard, but that is the wealthier one! You’re further correct about my knowledge of Prof. Gates, and that is why I was dumbfounded that you might think I would have a secret grudge against him. And, fwiw, there are no relations nor parallels between my (admitted) lack of sympathy towards the (erroneously labeled) former Mrs. Robinson and eminent professors such as West and Gates. I wish I could convince you that I do not look at the persons in reference through a racial lens, but I am afraid you will have to take my word for it. However, I do hope that the body of my posts here (and my clear positions on issues such as AA) might help accepting my word. </p>
<p>I did indeed write that Gates should not have been arrested, but that does not mean that his arrest for tumultuous behavior was not justified. I would have preferred for the police to overlook the repeated offensive statements and shrug off the obnoxious tantrums. </p>
<p>This does not change anything to the fact that the arrest can be attributed ENTIRELY to the actions, lack of control, and irrational self-importance of Prof. Gates. He had plenty of opportunities to defuse a situation but he DECIDED to push the envelope all the way to feeling the cold metal.</p>
<p>"I would have preferred for the police to overlook the repeated offensive statements and shrug off the obnoxious tantrums. "</p>
<p>I would prefer that too, given that the alternative is for them to BREAK THE LAW.</p>
<p>Arrest is legally justified only when the arresting officer has a reasonable belief that the arrestee has committed or is about to commit a crime. Any other arrest is illegal. Based on the police report’s version of the facts, what crime did the officer reasonably perceive or anticipate? Recall that he had already seen and accepted the 2 IDs at the time of the arrest, and Prof. Gates never left his own property.</p>
<p>There’s an interesting disconnect occurring in the thinking of some people on this thread. If the arrest was both illegal and unjustified, how was Prof. Gates not victimized? His biggest sin was repeatedly insisting on seeing the identification of the arresting officer. He himself had obeyed and relinquished his own identification, proving that he was the home’s legal resident, and that there was no reason whatsoever for the rude treatment he was receiving in his own home…</p>
<p>But, let me get this straight: The police officer can be as rude and disregarding of the dignity of a person as he wants to be, but if that person verbally express his displeasure at being treated in such a way, “He gets what he deserves”? And He “deserved” to be handcuffed and hauled down to the police station? He asked to be arrested? Since when does failing to commit an illegal act constitute asking to be arrested?</p>
<p>Did the kid who was shot to death after insisting that the police “not shove his mother” get what he deserved too? Why is it OK to assign omnipotence to ordinary police officers, and then say that anyone who doesn’t recognize that power, and behave differentially enough “gets what he deserves”?</p>