<p>Since the threads have been consolidated:</p>
<p>Henry Louis Gates: D</p>
<p>And one more, corroborating the views of Drosselmeir and Dbate, et al:</p>
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<p><a href=“http://www.nytimes.com/2009/07/25/opinion/25blow.html?_r=1&ref=opinion[/url]”>http://www.nytimes.com/2009/07/25/opinion/25blow.html?_r=1&ref=opinion</a></p>
<p>So because they are looking throught this prism then it is so?
Does that mean that every encounter Gates has with the police can be construed as racist just because he feels threatened?</p>
<p>keymom- you asked a similar question earlier yesterday that I was unable to respond to.</p>
<p>I bet that Crowley was not being racist but here is where I think he erred. Gates became angry and Crowley felt the anger was unwarranted. Since Crowley is the teacher of anti- profiling courses I think he should realize that African Americans see police interaction through a very different prism. He is the professional he needs to calm the situation not see that it escalates just because he can ultimately “win” because he is the one with the power at that moment. Obviously the arrest should not have occurred.</p>
<p>Looking through the prism does not make it so, but how are we to know when the encounters happen? The suspicion is always there. Always.</p>
<p>The prism is more like a self-defense mechanism. Which flavor of police officer is this one? I work with these guys, Black and white, on a daily basis, and you can bet I know which ones have an off-putting flavor to them.</p>
<p>“I’m surprised, actually, that such tapes have not already been released if they definitely show Prof.Gates to have been the totally uncooperative, out of control !@#wipe they would have us all to believe he was.”</p>
<p>True. I agree that if the video totally supported police, it’s very likely they’d have released it.</p>
<p>However, I’m concerned about the tapes’ showing only part of the story. For instance, imagine that the Crowley rudely approached Gates as if Gates definitely was a criminal, and Crowley didn’t bother to tell Gates why police had been called. Imagine that Gates still proffered his Harvard ID and drivers’ license, but the policeman’s body language and voice indicated he still didn’t believe Gates, and the policeman demanded – using the tone one would use with a dangerous criminal – that Gates come outside.</p>
<p>Now imagine that the camera starts rolling as Gates finally exits. What you’d likely see would be a visibly angry man who’s mouthing off at police, but you wouldn’t have seen the cop’s behavior that led to Gates’ anger. It would be easy to conclude that Gates was an uncooperative liar with a chip on his shoulder and Crowley had been professionally doing his job.</p>
<p>The video cameras are in the cars, usually mounted on the dashboard. Some cars may have cameras in the back. Audio, if there is an auto turn on. Some departments have manual turn ons for audio. If the car had been facing the porch, then there will be some video.</p>
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<p>Whoa, whoa, whoa. Are you saying that being a Harvard professor is evidence of membership in a certain group and therefore all members of that group are assumed to be the same way?</p>
<p>What’s the essential difference between saying:
“I observe this person is black. Blacks commit crimes at a higher rate than whites, therefore I’m going to assume this person committed or intends to commit a crime.”
AND
“I observe this person is a Harvard prof. Harv profs tend not to commit crimes, therefore I’m going to assume this person hasn’t committed a crime.”</p>
<p>Don’t you get it? How can you object to whites being classified one way and blacks another, but then say it’s ok to classify Harvard profs all the same way?</p>
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<p>I bet he tasted like straw berry, eww.</p>
<p>Pizzagirl, i already state why Harvard affliation would matter over the fact that he is a professor, it is a few pages back.</p>
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<p>So, if I say I’ve been mugged by black guys on several occasions, and I reach to clutch my purse to my body every time a black guy walks by me, that’s ok, because I see blacks through a very different prism? Is that acceptable?</p>
<p>I’m sorry, I’m seeing a huge double standard. It’s not ok for one to assume that a given black man is a criminal or up to no good just because he’s black, but it’s ok to assume that a given white man / white cop is racist or out to get you just because he’s white.</p>
<p>If you’ve been mugged a few times, it’s not ok to look at past behavior of black men towards you to clutch your purse when they walk by and to assume that all black men are thieves til proven otherwise, but if you’ve been jerked around by white cops a few times, it’s ok to look at past behavior of white cops towards you to assume that all white cops are out to get you til proven otherwise. </p>
<p>Double standard much?</p>
<p>“The prism is more like a self-defense mechanism”</p>
<p>As “animals,” ALL humans have self-defense mechanisms. Blacks’ self-defense mechanisms are probably on high alert when dealing with white policemen. And ALL people are probably on higher alert when dealing with individuals from groups that have high rates of crime. Remember Jesse Jackson’s famous quote:</p>
<p>“There is nothing more painful to me … than to walk down the street and hear footsteps and start thinking about robbery, then look around and see somebody white and feel relieved.”</p>
<p>There are so many mentions here of how white people must be more aware of how black people see white cops because of the cumulative effect of their abuses of their power over the years. Good point. But black people should also be aware that the cumulative effect of decades of dramatic differences in crime rates often have an effect on whites’ self-defense mechanisms when dealing with black people whom they don’t know…an effect that Jesse Jackson apparently shares.</p>
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<p>No that isn’t rational. The only way to build up an actual conception of populations is through personal experience. I have a friend whose dad is a hard core racist, when I spoke to him he wouldn’t even look at me. Why? Because when he was a cabby all the people who ever robbed him were black. But “crime rates” mean nothing because people don’t experience crime rates. Numbers do not have the ability to impart the same emotional damage that actual experiences do. So yeah, if a white woman got robbed by a black guy and was wary of black men then I wouldn’t think she is racist. But if she has never been accosted by black men and held that view then I would seriously think that she had racist tendencies.</p>
<p>The reason it is different is because of the personal experience of the matter. I mean how many white people have actually been attacked by black people? I would wager the number is far lower than the number of times they have interacted with black people in a completely un-hostile environment, so to have that opinion would be racist.</p>
<p>I mentioned this earlier in the thread but usually the only people who overtly show racist tendencies from my experience are white males, but I understand the fact that it is not white men who are racist but ignorant people because I have also interacted with white men who were not racist at all. </p>
<p>So yes, if every black person you have ever interacted with robbed you, then go ahead assume that all black people are thieves, but if not, then yeah that is racist.</p>
<p>As an unrelated aside I was recently in Alabama for a debate tournament and went to the movies and this white woman put her purse right by me which actually caught me off guard. I assumed that she would think that I would steal it, but no she put her purse there throughout the whole movie and as far as I can tell she never acted in any manner to assume that I would steal. Instances like that are what prevent people from being racist, because for every bad experience there are TONS to counteract it.</p>
<p>“I assumed that she would think that I would steal it”</p>
<p>And isn’t that assumption racist?</p>
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<p>Yes. I shouldn’t ordinarily think those things, especially because I have interacted with alot of white women in a social manner, but I was in Alabama so i just assumed people were racists. It was more of a regional ignorance thing, than a racist thing.</p>
<p>What I still really don’t get is why the outraged folks don’t realize that when arriving at the home, the officer had to assess the situation to find out if the owner, whomever it was, could be in danger from the person who broke the door. I don’t support the arrest at all, but I think the presumption should be taken that the officers arriving had the responsibility to act as if they were coming into a crime in progress where there might be danger to citizens or themselves. Think about that for a minute. There were the earmarks of a crime. What if there was one? The officer’s brusqueness could have saved a life. The Professor admits, himself, that he probably provoked the confrontation by acting on “instinct.” I’m inclined to believe him.</p>
<p>As far as cops, in my area there’s a lot of hostility toward them (and firefighters) for various reasons. THe stereotype is that they’re all Italian American goombahs who take care of their own at the expense of everyone else. Stereotypes exist for a reason. (And my husband and children are Italian American).</p>
<p>and to Dbate- if the woman had removed her purse from next to you would that show she thought you, as a black man might steal it? Or, might it show she thought you, as a stranger might steal it?</p>
<p>Dbate said: The reason it is different is because of the personal experience of the matter. I mean how many white people have actually been attacked by black people? I would wager the number is far lower than the number of times they have interacted with black people in a completely un-hostile environment, so to have that opinion would be racist.</p>
<p>The personal experience of cops is that many black men are criminals. They see this on a daily basis. Yes, it is a warped view, but that is their reality. Do they get a pass for viewing things through their prisms?</p>
<p>The reason the Alabama woman put her purse by you is that she would never expect anyone, - black, white or red, - to steal her purse. Wouldn’t it be nice if people acted honorably so that were true everywhere?</p>
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<p>Uhmmmm----no. The logic in this instance is embedded in the sum total of all the presenting evidence as it relates to the ID presented by Prof. Gates. In this instance, we had a suspected break-in in a residence located in the heart of an area heavily affiliated with the University. The person answering the door is an aging black man who walks with a can and says he is both a Harvard professor and that he rents the space from the University; an entirely plausible scenario. He presents proof that he is who he says he is. </p>
<p>Aside from that, as a demographic, university professors occupy the low end of the probability scale for breaking and entering.</p>