<p>Once again, we have the question, what did Crowley have to gain by lying about the witness saying that the two men were black? It really adds nothing to his case. Everyone agrees that Crowley did the right thing by going to the house. He never says that he didn’t believe Gates when Gates said he was the owner; he simply asked for ID as he would from any person in that circumstance. The only questions are how Gates acted and whether Gates’ actions warranted arrest. So why lie about something that you know is going to get you in trouble if they talk to the witness.</p>
<p>Whelan, on the other hand, essentially tells us the reason that she might misremember. She doesn’t want to be perceived as a racist and thinks that people will see her that way if she said the word black. As we say in the law biz, res ipsa loquitur–the thing speaks for itself.</p>
<p>One point has emerged clearly thus far–thus far, none of the documentary evidence contradicts Crowley on a single relevant point. And we still have the question, if the incident went down the way Gates and Ogletree said that it did, why did they back off so quickly when Crowley has been steadfast in his story? Of course, calmom might be right on this under the Angels in the Outfield theory–it could happen. But I’ll believe it when I see the settlement.</p>
<p>Well I heard the tapes and SHE NEVER MENTIONS BLACK MEN, that is fact. Yet Officer Crowley said she did and he said she spoke to him, which she did not. So if you want to stay in your lala land where the officer did not lie (which he obviously did) then fine, but all rational people see the officer fabricated things. Which begs the question, why would the officer want to lie?</p>
<p>My guess is that Obama call them a call, it is bad to escalate something like this for the president especially at this time. Gates is his friend.</p>
<p>He got it from racism. He either made it up because he found it convenient, or he made the weirdest mistake in recent memory, since blacks were not even mentioned, and Hispanics were. Either way, racism is here - and it is influencing this case to a most profound degree.</p>
<p>They have the actual tape recording on the boston globe link. Listen to it, she never mentions black men she actually said one looked kind of hispanic. I don’t know if she has super CYA powers to change tapes to make her not look racist, but from the tapes she didn’t say anything about black men. So I guess the officer, just kind of assumed the witness said this after their…um…lengthy conversation.</p>
<p>“Which begs the question, why would the officer want to lie?”</p>
<p>As I said before, it’s likely the officer didn’t lie on purpose. There has been research in which a mugging is staged and the perp is white, the victim is white. In general, witnesses reverse the races of the victim and perp. In real life, unfortunately some innocent black victims have been shot and killed by police who mistook them for the perps of a violent crime. I’m fairly sure that earlier in this thread, I linked to a story about a black cop who was killed under such circumstances.</p>
<p>In suggesting that racism was involved is this incident, I don’t think anyone is suggesting that the policeman is a deliberately racist person. Given the prevalence of racial stereotyping in this society, and given the long history of racism in the U.S., it’s unlikely that anyone is truly neutral about race in this country no matter how hard they try to be and no matter how open minded and ethical a person is.</p>
<p>It’s normal for people to embellish memories accidentally based on what they assume or think happened. </p>
<p>From what I’ve read of Crowley, there’s no indication he is some kind of flagrant racist. The same is true of Gates: There’s no indication from either man’s history that they are racist people with a paranoid distrust of people who aren’t their race.</p>
<p>They both seem like unusually decent, open minded people. That they got into this situation reflects more on the ongoing legacy of racism in this country --and why these issues still need to be addressed and healed – than on the character of the men who are involved.</p>
<p>False. It gives the impression that Crowley is justified in suspecting the black inhabitant of the home, and giving him the third, fourth, and fifth degree despite that he lives there, and walks with a cane.</p>
<p>The police report did not say that Crowley heard it on the tape. He says that Whelan told him at the scene. Again, what is his motive for lying about this? How does it help his story?</p>
<p>I think he did lie. The report goes too far in detail. It says he spoke to Whelan when Whelan denies it outright. But even if he did not lie it makes no sense for him to “somehow” hear of two black suspects when it was Hispanics that were mentioned. There is racism here, and of exactly the sort I have mentioned all along.</p>
<p>Once again. That the perps were alledged to be black gives quasi justification for holding the homeowner suspect and treating him as such. That is what caused this problem because had the cop not began his approach to Gates as one who means him harm, the cop would have easily gotten Gates to cooperate.</p>
<p>So the established fact that the police were called in to investigate a breaking and entering by someone who lived in the neighborhood and presumably would know the proper residents, and when he arrived the man found in the house became - immediately - belligerent and abusive is of no account because - * in your opinion * - the officer wrongly claimed that the complaintant identified the intruders as black?</p>
<p>Hmmmmmmmmmmmm, sorry I still plan to stick with the known facts, this is getting weirder than the ‘grassy knoll’.</p>
<p>And yes, I heard the tapes. As EMM1 said, they support the officer but not the professor, with the sole question being when and if the complaintant ever identified the intruders as ‘black’.</p>
<p>He actually never talked to Whelan at the scene. So yes Officer Crawley is a LIAR:</p>
<p>"“Let me be clear: She never had a conversation with Sgt. Crowley at the scene,” Murphy told CNN by phone. “And she never said to any police officer or to anybody ‘two black men.’ She never used the word ‘black.’ Period.”</p>
<p>The fact is the cop was a liar, and if he lied about one part in the police report it casts doubts on the entirety of the situation. The reason you and others like you continue to deny the fact that Officer Crawley lied is quite frankly despicable. I would wager if it came out that Gates lied in an aspect of the story you would blame gates and attempt to exonerate the officer, but I guess cops can now lie in police reports and their words are still canon. </p>
<p>Maybe we should allow them to start arresting people on dubious charges too…oh wait</p>