Harvard professor Henry Louis Gates arrested

[poetsheart]

<p>

I do not share your “sky is falling” mentality about the crumbling of the constitution because Gates was placed under arrest.

</p>

<p>I never suggested that “the sky was falling” or the “Constitution was crumbling” (at least it hasn’t yet), but I do believe that whenever a majority of Americans cavalierly accepts the idea of a citizen being arrested merely for “mouthing off” to law enforcement in his/her own home, we are indeed traveling a potentially dangerous path. I am expressing disgust over the attitude that, because people are offended by the content of protected speech, it is more acceptable (even praise worthy!) to back government negation of that right to free speech, than to defend the upholding of that most precious and hard won right.</p>

<p>And I must say that, given the fact that you yourself were brought up on the same “bogus” charges, I am surprised by your attitude. This is the first time, for instance that you have even admitted that the charges against Gates were “bogus”. In my opinion, the trampling of an individual’s First and Fourth Amendment rights should never fall under the category of “#$&% happens”, and the when the majority of a populous applauds government for such action, it will one day well deserve the stripping of its rights by fiat of a tyrannical government. It will have greased the skids, for the mean and cheap satisfaction of seeing certain of it’s citizens receiving their “come-uppence”. You had to hire a lawyer, and pay him to defend you in a court of law against a clear violation of your civil rights. That you had to sacrifice even one minute of your freedom is not something that falls under the category of “%&#$ happens” Did you think the policeman who arrested you was deserving of accolades while you were vilified, purple? If so, all I can say is, more’s the pity.</p>

<p>

But I have been able to keep at least a small amount of objectivity, enough to reallze that there are some decent cops out there, and I think that Crowley is one of them.

</p>

<p>I’ll thank you to find even one post in which I expressed the idea that all cops were corrupt. In fact, I think there exists at least one post in which I expressed the opposite sentiment. And I’ve even said that I believed Sgt. Crowley was basically a good cop who made a bad error.</p>

<p>I have also given my children, especially my son, detailed instruction on how to potentially engage law enforcement, with the express knowledge that they not only have the power to arrest on a whim, but also the power to take his life with little to no just provocation.</p>

[Drosselmeier]

<p>

Hogwash. There were multiple terrorist attacks against Americans under Clinton, and the second WTC bombing was planned for years under him. Bush kept this country safe for eight years after the towers fell.

</p>

<p>Well if he kept it so safe, it would not have started falling apart economically, and if it was so safe, so many Americans would not be dying away from home – needlessly, in a land that had nothing to do with bombing the WTC. If it was so safe, there would not have been the sort of torture going on under Bush at Abu Graib, where humans were treated literally like dogs by Real Americans. Bush left Obama with a veritable festering sore of immorality. It would have been an utter disaster for Obama to have simply abandoned it, after all of the ill will Bush has now built up for us. Obama has changed what he could. Certainly he, unlike Bush, does not argue the rightness of Bush’s policies, and indeed he has tried to end them at once. As president, he recognized that he would be forced to take a slower hand at it, and there is no harm in that at all.</p>

<p>

There were scream fests galore against Bush, and all sorts of irrational claims. It became a badge of honor among liberals to bash Bush. For sport. Never mind that the whole nation was also in the crosshairs.

</p>

<p>Oh yes. There were screamfests by honest Americans against Bush’s immorality. Indeed yes. But there were no Real Americans, the sort we see yelling now at Obama. And it is interesting, because Obama has done absolutely nothing wrong. He is, in fact, trying to help people, not torture them, or blow them up in places that had nothing to do with harming us. </p>

<p>

Where are the vociferous left wing anti-war protesters now that Obama is in charge (and has even increased troop strength)? We hear barely more than a peep from them - especially the phony Hollywood libs. Were they instead just partisan hypocrites?

</p>

<p>Obama is left with Bush’s nonsense, and now must be slow about winding it down. He was very clear that Iraq was a mistake and that we need to get out of there. That is what he is trying to do. But it is a real quagmire, and quagmires aren’t ended overnight. Obama was also quite open about increasing efforts in Afghanistan, where the real culprits against us are hiding. It all is entirely reasonable, unlike the nonsense Bush pulled. That is why the genuine Americans are not out there against Obama.</p>

<p>

Obama has not been avoiding a sudden change from Bush’s chosen path. He is for the most part staying the course, and has made increases in the same direction. Why? Because he was smart enough when he got behind the big desk to realize that what 43 was doing was right. Good for him.

</p>

<p>Quite false. Once again, Obama was very clear that Iraq was a great mistake, and that so was Guantanamo. He was remarkably clear even after taking office, that Bush was dead wrong to have taken the country in these directions. But you don’t untie a ball of knots in a minute. It takes time. With the nonsense that Bush left, it is going to take a lot more time than Obama wished. Genuine Americans understand this, as much as it pains us to see.</p>

<p>

Best to let the partisan garbage go a little bit, once in a while, and just try to think what might be in the best interests of the country.

</p>

<p>Pure hooey, and you know it.</p>

[Drosselmeier]

<p>

but I do believe that whenever a majority of Americans cavalierly accepts the idea of a citizen being arrested merely for “mouthing off” to law enforcement in his/her own home, we are indeed traveling a potentially dangerous path.

</p>

<p>Well, actually, poet, it is not potentially dangerous. It is already a sham. You see, the law is already on the books saying that cops cannot do to us what they do to us customarily. And yet the majority of our country, all Real Americans, accept this mistreatment as their patriotic duty. The country has already lost. And if we accept that a cop can abuse us as they do now, though the law forbids it, that abuse can and will serve as the basis of further abuse. It is a travesty what Real Americans have done to so wonderful a thing as our American ideals.</p>

[purpleflurp]

<p>poetsheart posted:
“I never suggested that “the sky was falling” or the “Constitution was crumbling” (at least it hasn’t yet), but I do believe that whenever a majority of Americans cavalierly accepts the idea of a citizen being arrested merely for “mouthing off” to law enforcement in his/her own home, we are indeed traveling a potentially dangerous path.”</p>

<p>Please search my earlier posts in this thread to see where I stood on the issue of Gates’s arrest. Each time I mentioned it, I said that I thought he should NOT have been arrested, and I stand by that. I think the arrest should not have been made, although I was not there and do not know Crowley’s reasoning behind it. At any rate, I think in the vast majority of cases, arrests and charges of “disorderly conduct” are shows of police power and might, and most of them do not stand.</p>

<p>Even though in the theoretical sense I think that someone should be able to curse a cop, mouth off to his heart’s content, and falsely accuse him of racism in front of his own home without repercussion, I am realistic enough to realize that many cops will see this as provocative (and maybe threatening) behavior and may arrest the person. It happens, and in my case, it happened for my saying a lot less than that. That is the reality. I would be more concerned if those charges (either mine or Gates’s) held up in court. </p>

<p>I really do wish that Gates had not confounded the situation with his poor behavior. Then it would be more clear who was in the “right.” As it is, I think both Crowley and Gates fared well from the incident, but many others without the clout do not.</p>

[purpleflurp]

<p>poetsheart posted:
“This is the first time, for instance that you have even admitted that the charges against Gates were “bogus”.”</p>

<p>No. I have always voiced objection to the arrest, and that can be verified in this thread. I do, though, feel that Gates foolishly put himself at risk for arrest, regardless of whether or not the arrest was legal or justified.</p>

[poetsheart]

<p>

Please search my earlier posts in this thread to see where I stood on the issue of Gates’s arrest. Each time I mentioned it, I said that I thought he should NOT have been arrested, and I stand by that.

</p>

<p>I apologize, purple, for confusing you with any number of others whose posts have reflected the belief that Gate’s arrest was entirely justified, and even laudable. </p>

<p>

I am realistic enough to realize that many cops will see this as provocative (and maybe threatening) behavior and may arrest the person. It happens, and in my case, it happened for my saying a lot less than that.

</p>

<p>And I’m saying that it ought not to be something that commonly happens, and it certainly ought not to be the accepted reality. </p>

<p>…out of curiosity, what was it that you said that resulted in your arrest?</p>

[littlegreenmom]

<p>She was probably channeling rage after reading a ridiculous post on CC is my guess.</p>

<p>Inquiring minds want to know. What did you say, purple?</p>

[poetsheart]

<p>

You see, the law is already on the books saying that cops cannot do to us what they do to us customarily. And yet the majority of our country, all Real Americans, accept this mistreatment as their patriotic duty. The country has already lost. And if we accept that a cop can abuse us as they do now, though the law forbids it, that abuse can and will serve as the basis of further abuse. It is a travesty what Real Americans have done to so wonderful a thing as our American ideals.

</p>

<p>I couldn’t agree more, Dross. But then again, how can a “racist” like you actually be speaking the truth"?;)</p>

<p>BTW, I sent you a PM. Did you receive it?</p>

[purpleflurp]

<p>littlegreenmom posted:
“She was probably channeling rage after reading a ridiculous post on CC is my guess.”</p>

<p>LOL. I am not prone to rage, though some things do make me angry. Fortunately, CC posts only aggravate me on occasion! :)</p>

[littlegreenmom]

<p>Did the anger management classes help, purple? </p>

<p>;)</p>

[purpleflurp]

<p>Just WHAT are you insinuating, littlegreenmom!? :mad:</p>

[littlegreenmom]

<p>Just trying to rile you up. ;)</p>

<p>I see it worked.</p>

[purpleflurp]

<p>littlegreenmom posted:
“I see it worked.”</p>

<p>NO IT DIDN’T! :mad: </p>

<p>LOL</p>

[littlegreenmom]

<p>You weren’t doing anything illicit, when questioned by the police, were you?</p>

[purpleflurp]

<p>littlegreenmom posted:
“You weren’t doing anything illicit, when questioned by the police, were you?” </p>

<p>Which time? ;)</p>

[littlegreenmom]

<p>Does your screenname have anything to do with your time behind bars?</p>

[milkandsugar]

<p>

There were multiple terrorist attacks against Americans under Clinton, and the second WTC bombing was planned for years under him. Bush kept this country safe for eight years after the towers fell.

</p>

<p>Pure bu******. Hogwash!</p>

<p>Same ole tired lines.</p>

[mstee]

<p>So we go from black vs. white to purple vs. green . . .</p>

[littlegreenmom]

<p>I am just hoping she isn’t a purple people eater.</p>

[BunsenBurner]

<p>Can we all join hands and sing now:</p>

<p>*This is the thread that doesn’t end,
Yes, it goes on and on, my friend.
Some people started posting it, not knowing what it was,
and they’ll continue posting it forever just because… *</p>