<p>^Roflmao!!!</p>
<p>Say, razorsharp, have you listened to the tape of the 911 call? It was released to the general public, and you can listen to it on the web.</p>
<p>Yes, I listened to the police dispatch tape. It is a little hard to understand. What was I supposed to learn from that tape?</p>
<p>“while Kluge’s wife is only seen as a threat to Kluge.”</p>
<p>Any rebuttal here?</p>
<p>
Anyone who knows my wife would know that you’re wrong, purp. 
I don’t know why you folks consider my DW to be a threat to me. I have no problem with people who speak their minds and don’t shrink from confronting authority when its in the wrong. Maybe that’s threatening to you folks, but I kind of like it.</p>
<p>It’s not that Ms Whalen is disputing what she told Crowley. She said she never spoke to Crowley. I know cops well enough - and I think you probably do too - to know that they lie. They lie often and they lie well. They will lie at the drop of a hat to cover their own or fellow officers’ butts. They don’t even see anything wrong with it.</p>
<p>“while Kluge’s wife is only seen as a threat to Kluge.”</p>
<p>That was a very funny JOKE.</p>
<p>“Blatant sexism. Gates was arrested because he was a male threatening the officer, while Kluge’s wife is only seen as a threat to Kluge.”</p>
<p>Yeah, but she runs great interference between her husband and any violent intruders. ;)</p>
<p>I believe Ms. Whalen because I listened to the 911 tape. Different witness may see different things, but I think it highly unlikely she would have said one thing to the 911 dispatcher and something completely different to Crowley. Occam’s razor - simplest explanation is the mostly like one.</p>
<p>razorsharp, the tape of the 911 call itself has been released to the public. You can hear exactly what the 911 caller says–it’s quite clear if you are listening to this tape.</p>
<p>Simba you are SO BAD (in a good way). You totally baited Kluge for a rebuttal!</p>
<p>Kluge:
Thank you, Kluge, for sharing one of your peccadillos with us. ;)</p>
<p>cartera45
</p>
<p>I am outraged! </p>
<p>I am actually not outraged - only liberals get outraged, but if I was a liberal, I would be outraged.</p>
<p>Cops are human - they are prone to the same mistakes as the rest of us. What separates them from us is that each and every day they put their lives on the line to keep us safe. </p>
<p>A cop is the guy running through the burning building where your elderly parents live, without firefighter’s gear, knocking on doors with his hand over his mouth making sure everyone is out. </p>
<p>A cop is also the person who approaches a drunk driver’s car window at 3 a.m., hoping he won’t be shot, and prevents this inebriated person from killing your college student and her friends on their way home from prom.</p>
<p>A cop prevented that massive load of heroin from hitting the neighborhood near your kid’s junior high school, even though a drug dealer threw chemicals into his eyes during the bust. While he is in the hospital getting treatment (and hopefully saving his sight), your kid’s classmate (who would have OD’d after his first exposure to the drug) is home watching television with his parents. </p>
<p>Only a fool would disrespect police officers as a group.</p>
<p>^^Where are those cops? lol</p>
<p>Can’t paint them all as saints either.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Oh get over yourself! I’m not saying cops aren’t brave, courageous, hard working, etc. etc. etc. I’m just saying that they lie to cover up mistakes by themselves or fellow officers or to boost a case or just to make themselves look better. I’ll bet there’s not a lawyer or investigator who deals regularly with them that won’t tell you the same thing. I don’t even think it’s a controversial issue. If you spend any time at all going over police reports with witnesses, you will see that it’s rare for them to match up. Most of the time, things are just nuanced a bit to make a statement a little stronger, or more focused or definitive. Sometimes there are huge discrepancies. I wish I had a dime for every time I read a police report to a witness and the witness sat slack jawed repeating, “I never said that. I never saw that.” If something happens between the time that a statement is taken and it is written up, then that written statement may mysteriously include facts and observations that the witness didn’t report, but the officer has come to believe is true. Officer Crowley’s statement is a beautiful example of a cop adding “details” to a witness statement that helped him out. Believe me - telling little fibs on police reports just scratches the surface when it comes to what is done to make an arrest and get a conviction.</p>
<p>^ Whew! A whole lot of explaining going on up there.</p>
<p>Here’s an example of a good cop</p>
<p>[Officer?s</a> fatal collision with pedestrian yields $3.3M lawsuit | Washington Examiner](<a href=“http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/local/Officers-fatal-collision-with-pedestrian-yields-33M-lawsuit-48032562.html]Officer?s”>http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/local/Officers-fatal-collision-with-pedestrian-yields-33M-lawsuit-48032562.html)</p>
<p>The report stated that a pedestrian was lawfully crossing the street and “ran into the right side of a police car” in an intersection with a stop sign. There was no mention of the police car speed anywhere. Another officer who arrived at the crash site directed that the scene be altered, changed and destroyed. The cop was not charged and the court dismissed the case.</p>
<p>Of course, had one of us normal people killed a pedestrian who was lawfully crossing the street, there would be more speeding cameras, larger fines, and longer jail sentences. And the police report would not say that the pedestrian ran into the driver’s car. It must be good to be a cop.</p>
<p>^
</p>
<p>Brilliant logic.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Indeed. Here is a further indicator of this. The people here are so convinced that Gates acted out-of-line when the only evidence they have for the contention comes from cops. Gates himself does not confirm the behavior ascribed to him. Yet they are so convinced that Gates acted “repulsively”, “stupidly”, “revoltingly” and other similar words. How do they know this? Of course they do not know it. They NEED Gates to have acted like this so that they can advance the idea that Gates was somehow to blame for having his rights trampled, though he did no wrong. These people are walking proofs that the American Constitution is a joke.</p>
<p>Of course the other side of this coin demands that I give evidence for how I know the cop is in the wrong. There are many things I believe about this cop for which I have no hard evidence. I am convinced the man lied about the things he claims Gates said. Indeed, claims like Gates having said “yo mama” sound to me like an adult white fan of “The Jeffersons”, unfamiliar with rapidly shifting black culture, depending upon that once famous show’s well-worn stereotypes to cast aspersions against the black guy he wishes to frame. </p>
<p>Moreover, the cop’s claim that the “acoustics” of Gates home required that he deny Gates’s request for his badge number and ID strikes me as just a load of hooey. And I am sure it strikes you, all of you, in exactly the same way. You know this cop is lying, but since we were not there, many of you insist upon making the happy sprint to Dear Mother Ignorance simply to protect the cop.</p>
<p>Additionally, I think that had the cop seen a middle-aged white man in the house, he would have approached the man differently than he approached Gates. I believe that Gates tells the truth when he said Crowley commanded that he come outside in a way “that made the hair on the back of my neck stand up” and that signaled to him, as Gates said himself “that I was in danger”. I believe had Gates been white, the cop would not have done this. But I cannot insist upon these things since I do not have hard evidence for them.</p>
<p>Nevertheless, there are many other things that I can insist upon because I do have hard enough evidence for them:</p>
<ol>
<li><p>According to what Crowley himself claims in his “Sweet Baby Jesus Police Report” that so many Americans believe over all else, Gates showed only contempt of cop, and that is no crime. Yet Gates was arrested. The cop was therefore wrong and Gates was not.</p></li>
<li><p>Moreover, in the 911 call, Ms. Whalen insisted that she did not know the race of the men about whom she called. She was most clear about this. This means that Crowley’s claim that he spoke with her later on the sidewalk in Gates’s neighborhood, where she gave the confident and detailed description of two black men with backpacks, is almost certainly false. Whelan was unwilling to even say the race of the men, and even when challenged was very clear that she did not know the race. It flies in the face of credulity to think she would later claim she did know the race. This supports that Crowley simply lied here to give support to his side of the story.</p></li>
<li><p>Whalen herself is adamant to this very day that she never even spoke with Crowley. This further supports that Crowley lied in his “Sweet Baby Jesus Report” that so many Americans believe over all else.</p></li>
<li><p>The final nail in Crowley’s integrity and in all of the cops who supported his report comes from the extreme unlikelihood that the players in this fracas are as fast as the report implies. As NCL here points out, the Police radio recording is only 4:37 long:</p></li>
</ol>
<p>(4:37) The dispatcher began to issue the call.
(3:40) A policeman (Crowley) arrived at the scene and asked the dispatcher to send the caller to front door;
<a href=“3:25-3:21”>b</a> Dispatcher told him caller does not live there, is a witness in this.
(2:59) Crowley reported the gentleman seemed to reside here but uncooperative.**</p>
<p>When we combine the facts in this recording with those of the police report we see it necessarily means that Crowley spoke with Whalen on the sidewalk, then walked to the front door, and then had his confrontation with Gates all in no more than 22 seconds.</p>
<p>Even if Real Americans claim that all of this happened in 22 seconds, it means that Gates had no time to say anything to Crowley that would warrant an arrest. It means that the entire confrontation that even Crowley claims took place could not have happened, since there was just no time for it. All of the “revolting” things Gates is alleged to have said, just did not happen.</p>
<p>So there we are. The evidence is hard and clear. It all points to one thing: Crowley is lying, and his certain lying here only supports the lies I cannot prove with hard evidence. We all know he is lying, and yet Real Americans are actually standing behind this guy and supporting his having trampled an American’s rights. </p>
<p>What could compel so many Americans against Gates, who has not lied, and for Crowley, who the evidence so strongly shows he lied? What is it that could cause them to give Crowley, an agent of the government, an actual pass in lying against a citizen, despite that the citizen did no wrong? How might Gates feel, and millions like him, people just like me, as they watch America become such a whore to dishonesty, proving here that when a black man needs the Constitution most, truth and law become nothing but shams?</p>
<p>Spideygirl, your naivete is understandable - you’re not the only non-black, non-lawyer poster in this thread who has insisted that police officers rarely lie.</p>
<p>But it’s still naivete. Anyone who has spent any amount of time in criminal courtrooms knows that the police officers who won’t lie - or at least “fudge” the truth - are a minority. Police officers lie because they know they can do so with impunity, and because doing so advances what they believe is a just cause. And many do it as a matter of course. Usually it doesn’t really matter a lot - if they just told the unvarnished truth it wouldn’t make any difference. But many just get in the habit of putting a positive “spin” on the things they put in their report.</p>
<p>Another personal anecdote: I once represented a middle aged businessman who got in the middle of a misunderstanding which led to a police officer ramming his car from behind (the cop thought my client was an escaping violent criminal. He wasn’t.) After realizing his error the officer took my client into custody and wrote up a report saying that my client had backed his car into the police car and had him charged with assault on an officer. If my client hadn’t had the presence of mind to run an ad in the local paper the next day, and some eyewitnesses to the event hadn’t responded, I have no doubt that he would have been convicted. As it was, he had to pay me to defend him through a jury trial. And having cross-examined the officer, I don’t think he lost a minute of sleep over it, either. (Still working as a cop last I heard.)</p>
<p>There are many cops who are as honest as the day is long. There are many more who are sort of in the middle. And there are some who live on the edge. That’s just reality.</p>
<p>Kluge:</p>
<p>This is what I actually said about cops and lying:
</p>
<p>This is quite different that what you understood:
</p>
<p>Since you generalized about people being “black and a lawyer”, and about the character of all cops, can you take a moment to see the humor in any lawyer saying THIS about members of a different profession?:</p>
<p>
If you don’t see that anyone could (and in all likelihood, would) make the exact generalization about lawyers, then it is you who are giving us an even grander example of naivet</p>