Harvard Prof's Math Analysis of Smart Black Students' "Acting white" phenom

Parent Cafe
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<p>Quote: “It is the black people at the school who define what “acting white” is.”</p>

<p>Not really true. While I have heard this from black people, I have also heard this from a few white people as well. I don’t get it, sure I do well in school and talk proper english (and I have a high-pitched voice) but I don’t dress a certain way or act a certain way. Too often people judge others by what they see on tv. When was the last time you heard a black eye witness speak proper English? Maybe if I had a deeper voice…</p>

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<p>“Acting white” is deff in black schools. At my school it isnt used for people who do well in school but for people who do not really hang out with other blacks, date white girls/boys, or dress, speak properly, or wear “white clothing.” Basiclly you are a sell out if you associate too closely with white people.</p>

<p>I have been told that i “act white” because i go to a boarding school but i could care less because who really decided what “acting white” is? Better yet what is “acting black”? I have heard that MANY times. I mean how can you talk about people for “acting white” but not want to be stereotyped as a typical ignorant, uneducated black person who is violent and only listens to “gangsta rap”. </p>

<p>I think people need to just shut up and quit being jealous of the people who take the incitive to better themselves in education, being individuals in how they act and what they wear, and treating others as equals like they should.</p>

<p><em>~Fallen1~</em></p>

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<p>There’s nothing wrong with being successful, speaking correctly and dressing well. It doesn’t matter what race you are…</p>

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<p>Cavalier, you miss the point. </p>

<p>In many communities, one is penalized for doing so. It requires “swimming upstream” against peer pressure and expectations.</p>

<p>Being accused of “acting white” is a cruel reality in many places. Get over it.</p>

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<p>

True, like the US Senate.
The Senators comfortably ensconced there once believed Clarence Thomas was “acting white.” Is that still the case amongst that august posse, or is that now too old school to maintain?</p>

<p>Eleanor Holmes Norton still thinks Justice Thomas is “acting white.” That’s straight from the mountain top; from those heights all rivers flow down stream.</p>

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<p>White students can be penalised for being too smart and studious - I think this mostly happens with female students. I was certainly one of them - punished relentlessly for academic success. </p>

<p>Some kids have the guts to resist; however, it’s often asking a lot of young teenagers to ignore everyone around them and work for the cold comfort of good grades.</p>

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<p>There are anti-academic forces in most ethnic groups in the U.S. (except perhaps Asians), but the anti-academic attitude does seem to be strongest among African-Americans.</p>

<p>I think it is no coincidence that many of the African-American students in the elite academic magnet programs in my kids’ school system are either recent African immigrants or kids from Caribbean backgrounds. In other words, they may look like other African-American kids, but they differ culturally from the African-American mainstream. That cultural difference may account for how they earned good enough grades in middle school to get into elite high school programs in the first place.</p>

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<p>Yes, Clarence Thomas or Condoleeza Rice. She’s been accused of “acting white”…her straightened hair, pearls, elocution.</p>

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<p>my daughter has many friends who are “black”- but a good portion of them are immgrants-there is a subtle undercurrent I pick up among the african american students to “stay with your own kind”.
It isn’t so bad at her school, but at some of the other schools that are very diverse, the pressure is still strong to have friends that look like you.
I wouldn’t say that it is from the whites that the pressure is coming, but from Asian students, and African American
This seems to be regardless of the attitude of parents, although I admit I have no idea, what it is like when it is just family.</p>

<p>I think for boys at her school, according to african american boys I have spoken with ( mostly after they have graduated- while they are in school, they are not so forthcoming), there is a lot of pressure- not so much to not act “white”, but to be tough.
Lots of pressure- so much so that some of the boys, although they initially wanted to attend a very diverse school, in retrospect they wished that they hadn’t had to deal with the pressure of walking the tightrope of participating in class and not losing face with your peers.
It is very different for most girls, they don’t seem to have that pressure- not at Ds school anyway</p>

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<p>I think we are in a bubble where I live. The AA kids at my son’s school talk, excel and interact just like all the other kids - no difference at ALL that I have seen. Parents/kids all interact and I can truly say that the kids are race blind. There are many AA children of affluent AA and mixed race parents at the school. I’m sure it’s different in the public schools but like I said, our son’s school is a lovely bubble. I think the differences and pressures on black males may be socioeconomic rather than race? i.e. in higher income schools intellect is valued more than the pressure to be “tough”?</p>

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<p>Well my D attends a public school that for Seattle is historically called the “inner city”, but I doubt it is the same level that other cities would call “inner city”
The free and reduced lunch rate of the school, is actually about half that of the district as a whole.</p>

<p>While I would agree that in a private school, students whether male or female , black or white are generally going to feel support and pressure to perform academically, there are other issues going on that may encourage african american males especially to choose a public school. </p>

<p>At a well known and generally thought of parochial school in Seattle for example, quite a few black students who were getting “athletic” scholarships to attend, have now transferred out, to my daughters school and others, because the Catholic school was quite racist and seemingly unaplogetic about it.
But in the public school, while minorities are actually the “majority”, a small but persistent group of kids may put out pressure to conform to “their norm”. The kids feel the pressure, especially boys, whatever their socioeconomic group.
In higher income schools, the parents may value academics over whatever street smarts , and hierarchy, but it depends on the school if that trickles down to the students.</p>

<p>I have also seem high income schools, where the parents are fairly removed from the students- with work, work related travel etc., and students may come up with their own values.</p>

<p>I am sure Seattle isn’t the only city where white boys come into town from the well heeled suburbs to hang out on the streets to “be cool” and get into trouble.</p>

<p>BUt while private schools may be seen as a solution for some families ,including many minority families, as indeed they have been in our school district, it isn’t a solution for everyone, and a lot may depend on the teachers, whether they have the skill to notice that some of these kids who act like they don’t care, are actually awfully bright, and have the ability to help them see beyond their own expectations and the expectations of their families.</p>

<p>We are very fortunate to have a gifted young black male principal, who seems adept at indentifying the “ringleaders” for want of a better term, and reach out to them and enlist their help in keeping their peers in school and involved.
He doesn’t have 100% success, but I think his eye is very good, and his energy and committment very high.</p>

<p>BUt seeing that this school can help many kids be successful, where they wouldn’t set as high of a bar for themselves, at another school, makes the contrast to some other schools both public and private, very frustrating</p>

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<p>I saw Professor Roland Fryer on the WGBH show Basic Black a while back. He tackled several of the points that you guys are talking about now, especially the “acting white” notion. I thought it was interesting, him discussing his motives for his research, the controversies it had spawned, and the process by which he gathered his data. </p>

<p>If any of you are interested in his papers, <a href=“http://post.economics.harvard.edu/faculty/fryer/papers.html[/url]”>http://post.economics.harvard.edu/faculty/fryer/papers.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

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<p>I wanted to get this info out particulary for black men- I didn’t hear this show the other day- but I have heard very good reviews of the author and his work
<a href=“http://kuow.org/programs/weekday.asp?Archive=06-29[/url]”>http://kuow.org/programs/weekday.asp?Archive=06-29&lt;/a&gt;
<a href=“http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/dannywestneat/2002986368_danny11.html[/url]”>http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/dannywestneat/2002986368_danny11.html&lt;/a&gt;

</p>

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<p>Son#1(white) has a close friend (black) and they have been friends since 7th grade. His friend will act and speak very differently when he is with his white friends or on vacation with us than he does when he is with a group of black friends. When I questioned him about this, he replied that it was just easier to fit in with the group he finds himself with.</p>

<p>Son #2 has close friend (black) was very strong academic student, football captain, full ride scholarship (combo of athletic/academic). He was teased alot in high school about “acting white” because grades were good, dated a white girl, had strict parents and many white friends—but he was well liked by all groups —voted best all round in yearbook, voted prom king.</p>

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<p>AP story:
"Surviving ‘stressful process’ of being black male
African-American men quietly combat negative stereotypes about them</p>

<p>NEW YORK - Keith Borders tries hard not to scare people. He’s 6-foot-7, a garrulous lawyer who talks with his hands. And he’s black.</p>

<p>Many people find him threatening. He works hard to prove otherwise.</p>

<p>“I have a very keen sense of my size and how I communicate,” says Borders of Mason, Ohio. “I end up putting my hands in my pockets or behind me. I stand with my feet closer together. With my feet spread out, it looks like I’m taking a stance. And I use a softer voice.”</p>

<p>Every day, African-American men consciously work to offset stereotypes about them — that they are dangerous, aggressive, angry. Some smile a lot, dress conservatively and speak with deference: “Yes, sir,” or “No, ma’am…” </p>

<p>It’s all about surviving, and trying to thrive, in a nation where biased views of black men stubbornly hang on decades after segregation and where statistics show a yawning gap between the lives of white men and black men. Black men’s median wages are barely three-fourths those of whites; nearly 1 in 3 black men will spend time behind bars during his life; and, on average, black men die six years earlier than whites.</p>

<p>Sure, everyone has ways of coping with other people’s perceptions: Who acts the same at work as they do with their kids, or their high school friends?</p>

<p>But for black men, there’s more at stake. If they don’t carefully calculate how to handle everyday situations — in ways that usually go unnoticed — they can end up out of a job, in jail or dead…</p>

<p>Melissa Harris Lacewell, a political scientist at the University of Chicago, says it’s at the heart of being a black American male.</p>

<p>“Black mothers and fathers socialize their sons to not make waves, to not come up against the authorities, to speak even more politely not only when there are whites present but particularly if there are whites who have power,” she said…"
<a href=“http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/13560066/_[/url]”>http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/13560066/_&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

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<p>That was a good article, Northstarmom.</p>

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<p>From my Senator, Barack Obama’s keynote speech at the DNC in 2004:

</p>

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<p>The Borders story recalls the “dress for success” advice for big guys, which was to avoid frightening others. I’m sure it had some reasonable basis.</p>

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<p>From the article about the stress of being a black male:</p>

<p>"Bill Fletcher still has nightmares about his third-grade teacher, a white woman who “treated me and other black students as if we were idiots,” he said. “She destroyed my confidence.”</p>

<p>But his parents were strong advocates, and taught him to cope by having little contact with teachers who didn’t take an interest in him, said Fletcher, former president of TransAfrica Forum, a group that builds ties between African-Americans and Africa."</p>

<p>Fletcher graduated from Harvard in '76, and was lucky enough to come from a two-parent family. Presumably he’s a very intelligent guy, too. If his third grade teacher treated him like he was an idiot imagine what happens to average black males who are in single parent homes.</p>