If reflects a disturbing lack of empathy that they would find those topics amusing. Certainly not as bad as actually perpetrating those actions, but IMO, indicative of questionable character and justification for Harvard’s reticence at having those individuals representing them, being present on campus, and interacting with members of those exact groups who were the targets of their “humor.”
I had to think hard about this situation, because I am a firm believer in the First Amendment, and even believe it behooves all colleges to support free speech. It comes down to the fact that these kids attached Harvard’s name to their group, they were not yet matriculated, and had they revealed this “side” of themselves prior to admittance, they would certainly never have been admitted. No one would bat an eye at Harvard for finding them unworthy prior to admittance, but because it’s discovered too late for most of them to hop on over to Yale or Princeton, it’s suddenly a matter of free speech, censorship, and privacy concerns and much angst.
I would argue that this is a worse infraction than posting offensive memes YET they still will get their Harvard diplomas. Why worse? As I see it the soccer team members deliberately harassed individuals (fellow students), on campus.
I think it is okay for Harvard to have slightly different standards for students who have already matriculated and are part of the community (soccer team example) and for those who aren’t yet part of the community.
If a black person is walking across the Yard and “N----r” is being yelled at to them by 10 students who think it’s funny and dark humor, we let that slide? Or is it okay when it is in abstract, but when directed to an actual person, not okay and deserves a consequence? How far down the slippery slope of free speech do we go before we say, “Enough”?
@Crimsonmom2019 I would say the situation in your example is a punishable offense. Because it is harassment directed at an individual (and on campus). But a kid playing or sharing rap music (where the N word is ubiquitous) should not be subject to punishment.
Facts not in evidence, again. We don’t know intent of the men’s soccer team and we don’t know the intent of the 10 students who had their acceptances rescinded. We’re speculating. But both were monumentally stupid. And my main point is, the 10 students should have gained a greater respect for Harvard’s authority after the soccer stupidity.
And we’re also debating who and how someone feels harassed and the severity of the harassment. We’re all different and whether you or I don’t feel harassed by pictures/memes or by being judged based upon on our looks, personality and field play, the harassment is in the eye of the person on the receiving end.
I showed the article to my D18 and she just shook her head in utter amazement. The level of stupidity knows no bounds. Have you taken a look at the actual pictures/memes? Making fun of the sexual arousal from child abuse? 6,000,000 Jews among the many others who died in the WWII? The hanging of a Mexican child and calling it “pinata time”? So the hanging wasn’t enough, but the beating of a dead Hispanic child? Really? That passes the eye test for dark humor to some?
If you don’t learn from history, then we’re doomed to repeat it. Do you think Harvard’s Class of 2018 will have gained a greater respect for what happened to these 10 kids. Gosh, I hope so.
Oh Boo-Hoo, I don’t feel one iota of compassion for these losers. The assumed age of a high school senior is 18 or damn close. An adult. There are plenty of other schools out there, many still accepting applications. Personally if it was one of my kids, I’d make them sit out a year and bust their humps earning some $$ toward the next college that offers them a spot. Its pretty obvious they have the academic intellect but lack the social and moral maturity they need to succeed in college, never mind life in general.
Not going to repeat my whole post from the thread on the parents’ forum, but I think context here matters as much as content.
Most people have at some point in their lives made a comment they probably wouldn’t want attached to their names forever, even if not at the level of these memes (although anyone who has ever played Cards Against Humanity has probably come close). But to me, there’s a substantive different between someone who makes a spontaneous, over-the-line joke among a group of friends and students who, as almost their first act as part of the Harvard Community, were moved to start a purposely and wildly offensive group with a group of strangers, a group that apparently lasted for some time and involved membership “standards” that included posting an initial offensive meme to a thread of other Harvard students who hadn’t joined the subgroup. Of all the things one could discuss, all the interests around which one could bond with future classmates, this is what they chose. This doesn’t speak well of their maturity, their sensitivity towards others, or --given that this played out using real names on social media – their common sense.
To conflate this with legitimately disturbing examples of campus efforts to silence speech is wrongheaded, I think. I, too, am concerned at how narrowly certain groups are drawing the lines of acceptable discourse. That doesn’t mean that there are or should be no limits. This group was intended precisely to take pleasure out of violating widely shared standards of decency. It isn’t in the same ballpark as going after speakers expressing serious and relatively mainstream (if in some cases minority-held) opinions with whom some contingent disagrees.
Harvard was right about rescinding those students admission. Those people were so young, most likely 18 or 19 and so horrible already. I don’t think any college should admit them. Whether those students believe in things they shared online or they participated in some prank, it says very badly about them; either they are too immoral or too stupid to attend college.
@sushiritto I believe I land where you are re: who feels harassed and at what level. Should it matter if a person feels “slightly harassed” vs “egregiously harassed”? Is there even such a thing?
I liken it to death by a thousand cuts where some of the cuts are deeper than others (offensive memes directed at my race vs direct offensive words said to me), but they are still cuts. Why should a target group suffer any cut as a result of another’s “humor” or indeed, deeply held beliefs, without consequence to the offender?
As others have said, at some point we’ve all made a spontaneous remark that was not a true indicator of our character and I, for one, am totally raising my hand and owning that. But to consciously, through a series of days participate in “death by a thousand cuts” and have that behavior, by some at least, seen as unworthy of consequence makes me feel a whole host of emotions, none good.
@redpetals, Let’s not go overboard. They made a mistake. They posted something horrible, likely for shock value. Similar memes are plastered all over the internet. IMO Harvard was right to rescind their offer but the idea that these kids are somehow irredeemable and should not be allowed to attend college is (again IMO) ridiculous.
I hope the kids involved will learn from this experience an that other members of the Harvard community will get the strong message that Harvard will not tolerate such behavior.
I certainly don’t think they are irredeemable and did not say so, nor say they should not be allowed to attend college. I, too, believe that ridiculous. I was simply commenting on the thought that there are levels to how a person should feel about being harassed and that someone other than that person can dictate it. That’s it, that’s all.
Sue22, you might be correct that those students posted something just to shock people, it could be some kind of joke on their side. But they should get the lesson for their stupidity. What if they just get a real job, live on their own for a while and then apply to college again, it will make them more mature for sure…