<p>So performersmom…what does your H want to do?</p>
<p>Tough tough question, dstark. He is hanging onto his current job by his finger-nails, as the “eminence grise”, the old guy, now in the background, kind of repping the co on a bunch of deals, but with no territory!! A job in hand is better than trying to find a new one when you are over 50 these days. Those health care bennies are worth a great deal. And so is the relative predictability of his income.</p>
<p>If he goes out on his own, that would definitely cost us a significant part of our savings. And a start-up is a big risk in this economy.</p>
<p>Not one person we know that is 10 years his junior on up in his career area around here has changed jobs or found a new job in the last three plus years. </p>
<p>He hopes to get hired as a consultant or contract worker by someone sometime. No benefits. No guarantees. But he has had no offers and is afraid to be too aggressive in his search for fear of getting discovered by his current employer. The old catch -22.</p>
<p>I should ask you, dstark, if you are an independent contractor, and if so:
have you always been one?
is it scary? what personality type does well at this?
I think my H is too risk-averse, and also like to be part of a team.</p>
<p>Two of my bros have been independent traders. Due to lack of computer skills (and college degrees), they stopped making profits about 8 years ago and switched it up. One is a sales trainer and marketer at an online trading co. The other owns an office which he runs with the most up to date trading equipment and software and book-keeping and clearing- he makes percentage of their profits.
So I am impressed at your success!!!</p>
<p>I think H would do well to eventually transition to being a trainer or in the educational or non-profit sector, as I think he would really enjoy the work. That would require significant down-sizing, but I am ready for an adventure, as shocking as it may be!!</p>
<p>
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<p>Your kid was just like me when I was in college. However, I did so mostly because I LOVED the college academic experience in and out of class…even with the not-so-good Profs. </p>
<p>On the other hand, I along with many oldschool Profs who taught for 20+ years also acknowledge that undergraduates are young adults who should be expected to be making their own decisions on educational matters…including whether to attend classes or not and to plan accordingly. </p>
<p>If they skip for any reason and still master the courses to attain at least a B or better…I don’t see how it’s a skin off our noses…or theirs if they skip classes. </p>
<p>On the other hand, if they get a B- or less, then skipping classes was a bad decision in their case and they will learn to suffer the consequences…including losses of scholarships and/or parents pulling them out of school if they’re paying any portion of that student’s college expenses. </p>
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</p>
<p>Agreed. It is also a great way to learn to endure the tedium of post-college life. :)</p>
<p>"Not one person we know that is 10 years his junior on up in his career area around here has changed jobs or found a new job in the last three plus years. "</p>
<p>That is a very gloomy picture.</p>
<p>Well…it is kind of complicated…but to simplify…Yes…I have been an independent contractor for 30 years. </p>
<p>I have never had a steady income…although, I am doing some consulting work now…and temporarily…that is steady. The income is not as good though. And I never know when this gig will end.</p>
<p>I was a market maker for about 19 years, but, after about 12 years I felt I had to make a decision… to go for the big bucks or be more of a
stay at home dad…because I felt if I worked hard at trading…I could not be the dad I wanted to be…I felt I did not have the energy for the kids when I worked hard. Also, the hardest thing was the risk…I was always
at financial risk. Hard to leave that at work. </p>
<p>So I chose to work part time for the next 15 years. If my money runs out in 30 years …I am not going to be happy. :)</p>
<p>As far as working for yourself…I have preferred it and the only reason my current situation works at all is because the person I answer to is the
chairman of the company and he is a good friend of mine and I can tell him anything I want including go f… Yourself.</p>
<p>The biggest thing with working for yourself is…the risk…some people
are risk takers and some aren’t. And the time you have to put into something that is your own.
So…doesn’t sound like working independently is right for your H. Just from reading your post. I could be wrong.</p>
<p>Are traders making money for your second brother? I think trading is a
very difficult business now. I don’t like it actually. I know people like BC Eagle91 are doing well…but the odds are stacked against traders now.</p>
<p>New is disseminated quickly…derivatives are priced efficiently…the bid ask spreads are very tight…firms like hft firms can make money with
incredibly tight spreads. The public is scared of the markets so there is more professional business as a percentage of overall trading …which isn’t good for traders. </p>
<p>Firms that can make money have the order flows…like a Citadel or have internal order flows…like a Citi… Then there are oligopolies…like the
banks…which have control of foreign currency markets…which are huge. And of course there is off exchange trading…which is huge and unregulated and where 90% of the derivatives flow through 5 banks…</p>
<p>Then there are firms like Jim Simons old firm…probably the best trading firm. I have no idea how that firm makes money. :)</p>
<p>Health care is a major problem in this country. It prevents people from starting new businesses and taking risk. We should have universal health care like almost every other major country. I say this even though my daughter works for a health insurance company.</p>
<p>"but the odds are stacked against traders now.</p>
<p>News is disseminated quickly…derivatives are priced efficiently…the bid ask spreads are very tight…firms like hft firms can make money with incredibly tight spreads. The public is scared of the markets so there is more professional business as a percentage of overall trading …which isn’t good for traders. "</p>
<p>So true. The amount of juice left in even a good trade is so low it is pathetic. B2’s firm had a few excellent years but this year and last have not been good. The firm does arbitrage and day trading- nothing fundamental, nothing technical.
I think the game is now to get your hands or to create the latest and greatest software to measure risk@@@!!! The shelf life is getting shorter and shorter for these quant packages, as the sophistication and technological intensity go ever higher.</p>
<p>I agree the the best and probably pretty huge opportunity is off-exchange trading. But I suspect that it will be very risky cyclically, and subject to “irregularities” galore. The internet and computer power will make this easy to do for those with that sort of expertise, who are generally NOT the over 50’s (definitely not my H)… Back in dinosaur days, it was always the biggest money-maker! </p>
<p>At some point, the regulators and accounting firms will HAVE to pay attention to the off-exchange trading, though…</p>
<p>Well, H is certainly not suited for going off on his own~Appreciate your informed responses there.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>you think the DOD budget increased by $1.5 trillion a year?</p>
<p>I have a bridge to sell you… interested?</p>
<p>“The firm does arbitrage and day trading- nothing fundamental, nothing technical.”</p>
<p>If the firm is doing arbitrage and wants to close it’s positions at the end of the day…the firm is competing against firms like Jump, Getco, Citadel…and a few more firms.</p>
<p>I am going to put my money on Jump, Getco and Citadel…well I would if those firms would take my money.:)</p>
<p>I think his guys are trading their own money, not clients’.</p>
<p>I understand.</p>
<p>I have done all the menial jobs you can name, busboy (including toilet cleaner), garbageman, rebuilt pallets in a rat infested warehouse, delivered newspapers from 3-6am every morning for 7 years from the age of 33-40. My D has not had the same experience but she has worked various part time jobs. I get the sense that it is different now. For example I made enough doing the newspapers to save $100k for my D’s college. My neighbor has been doing several menial jobs since he was laid off including delivering newspapers. He makes less doing that now than I did 14 years ago. For a large percentage of the US population it has been very rough. It is not because they do not want to work hard.</p>
<p>Tom1944, we should start a toilet cleaner’s club on CC. People would apply to join our club…just the way people apply to Hervard. And we would turn them down. Sorry…we are a very exclusive club…we can’t accept your kind. :)</p>
<p>I agree with your post.
Standard of living is going down…cost of living is going up…echhh.</p>
<p>I was talking to this guy. He said his ex-wife works in a nursery school. She makes 1,000 a month with no benefits. </p>
<p>How the he’ll is that going to work out?</p>
<p>I have just accepted a “menial job” after a number of years of being pretty much unemployed. <em>Nothing</em> is happening in my field in my region. The large workplaces around me are under hiring freezes. I have applied to many jobs, and this is the first time I have been offered one - so I took it. Other possibilities fell through when clients became gun-shy about financing projects. At least I will contribute a meager cash flow to my family. This whole thing is very emotionally difficult for me. When you see that grocery or department store cashier, these days it’s not necessarily a career employee - he or she might be someone who has <em>lost</em> their career. I have noticed that often the undercurrent of unrest in our society is very hard to understand for people who are continuing along with some job security, whether wealthy or middle class. There is talk about raising the retirement age, but where will they work? - more and more older people will be getting pushed out, to make way for younger, less expensive, dare I say “fresher” workers. I know you parents over 50 have felt that tinge of irrelevancy at times, right? From my end, things don’t look good.</p>
<p>hanaviolet- good luck. I hope everything works out for you. It is a difficult time.</p>
<p>dstark- health care costs alone erode our standard of living every year. The US spends twice the % of GDP on HC than every other country we compete with. That alone will sigificantly change the standard of living for the majority of Americans. Our longevity and years spent in poor health do not match up favorable either. </p>
<p>hanaviolet mentions grocery store clerks when I was in HS some girls started working at the grocery never went to college and ended up with a decent middle class life by working that job.</p>
<p>why are our health care costs higher than those in other developed countries?</p>
<p>Hanaviolet…good luck to you…I think you make great points.</p>
<p>“hanaviolet mentions grocery store clerks when I was in HS some girls started working at the grocery never went to college and ended up with a decent middle class life by working that job.”</p>
<p>One of my oldest friends…over 40 years…started working as a grocery clerk in the 70’s…I think what he made 30 years ago is similar to what grocery clerks start out at today…</p>
<p>He was able to buy a house in SF while working as a grocery clerk 30 years ago.</p>
<p>Tom1944, I agree with your health care comments.</p>
<p>I have always thought that any work is good work and that work is good for the soul.</p>
<p>I was at McDonalds (was doing a run for a group) last night (no, I didn’t buy anything for myself yesterday for those here from the diet/exercise thread) and there was an elderly gentleman (fairly well-dressed) in front of me paying for his food facing a young trainee with an older lady next to him telling him what to do when he didn’t know. I guess that the buttons on those McDonalds registers can be quite complicated.</p>
<p>He was counting out small change and was short about 15 cents. I was ready to pay for the guy’s meal (or the remainder) with an indication to the cashier. He had a small ice cream which he indicated that they could take back if he didn’t have enough and asked them if what he gave them was enough. The lady next to the cashier apparently told the trainee that it was okay, and he accepted the lower payment. The cashier certainly learned something about how tough some people have it. The cashier looked pretty happy to have the job.</p>
<p>poetgrl- I have my opinion on why and many others have their opinion on why. No matter who is correct the end result is that HC costs are eroding the majority of Americans standard of living. I think there is universal agreement that some how we need to get the cost of HC under control.</p>
<p>Here’s my theory of what is underlying our economic travails:</p>
<p>The 401K came into great popular usage about 25 years ago. This meant many people who were not historically in the stock investor class became stock investors. Mutual funds emerged. Everyone had a 401K and would get very put out if it wasn’t climbing at a very rapid clip. Everyone. Not just the guy “with money in his family” or the doctors and lawyers or very successful small business owners. Everyone.</p>
<p>This universal stock ownership fueled a huge increase in stock valuations and spawned a gazillion investment companies. This led to a very big influx of capital to corporations and for a long time it was all just really swell.</p>
<p>But then the technological innovations hit some bumps in pharma and in dot coms and there started to be a dearth of untapped markets and the continuous big quarter-on-quarter growth in earning statements started to slow down and mutual fund analysts started stomping their feet and fretting over how hard was to pick the winners and deliver 15 percent growth to Joe Schmo holding their fund in his 401K. So the analysts started beating on the CEOs to deliver bigger profit margins, always bigger and in the very short term. The whole notion of longterm R&D and strategy flew right out the window.</p>
<p>This made the “Analysts” demand layoffs, cost control measures, outsourcing of the corporations so that the profit margins looked better and the stock price would go up and the 401K investors would be happy and they would get a fat bonus.</p>
<p>Corporations are not downsizing and refusing to hire because they are malevolent entities trying to perpetrate human suffering. Corporations need the capital from stock investors and the Analysts on Wall Street will not give them the nod unless their costs decline and their profit margin increases.</p>
<p>So, really, in a weird way we have all played a role in what has come to pass. We all have 401Ks and investment accounts at Schwab and Fidelity and we all feel really bummed if we aren’t seeing our investments grow. We can move funds willy nilly with a flick of a finger on our keypad. The Analysts know this. They pressure the corporation to cut costs, and then we end up laid off.</p>
<p>Sort of a big circular black hole.</p>
<p>tom–</p>
<p>It’s so wierd to me, this healthcare cost thing. I cannot figure out why our healthcare costs so much more than that of other countries. I can’t figure out why it “should” cost more here then there.</p>
<p>I don’t think, until we know why it costs more, we can figure out what to do about it. But, I do completely agree that as far as governmental costs go, medicare is a huge issue. Also, of course, the endless wars.</p>