HELP! DD just charged with academic misconduct

Applying to College
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It may not have seemed like a huge deal at the time but I do hope that one takeaway for the OP is that having a high school student operate on 3 hours a night sleep over a multiple week period is a bad idea. I would take care that not only this D but any other children that go through the school (or any school) get sufficient sleep each night. If it means having a child dropping down a level of difficulty in a course (if it is possible at that HS) or even hiring a tutor as it seems many in the school seem to do then that is the cost of attending that institution.

Best wishes to the OP and her D moving forward.

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There are a number of schools that suppress the disciplinary question on the common app, such as ASU (at least thru the last app cycle). https://appsupport.commonapp.org/applicantsupport/s/article/asu-admission-requirements-awybmyfd

Again, you will have to go thru website by website, look at each school’s own app and/or thru the common app details for each school (which isn’t out yet for 2020/21).

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Sorry this is long. Some will agree, some will still be upset, I know.

  1. I think some here are going off the rails. This isn't one of those threads where an OP supposes a situation or links a media case. You don't help her by stating your hs teachers don't respond this way or how outrageous this is.

This is her personal situation. She’s never been through it and imo, needs the right perspective. She’s a parent trying to accept this, not hide what her D did.

  1. **I do not believe this will go on the transcript.** Someone here may have experience where it did, but how do you say your own kids never faced this and then insist it's on her transcript? In 10+ years, of being involved, I can't recall it ever being on the transcript. Some high schools won't report it at all. Some will. OP said hers will. That's not the transcript. It's a Common App question. Unless this school does put it on the transcript. Only OP can tell us that.

In the academic record/history that the high school keeps, yes. But that’s not the transcript.

  1. @karen0, you can see how the Commn App words it. It's possible it will change, that's is under discussion. This is from 2018-2019:

“Have you ever been found responsible for a disciplinary violation at any educational institution you have attended from the 9th grade (or the international equivalent) forward, whether related to academic misconduct or behavioral misconduct, that resulted in a disciplinary action? These actions could include, but are not limited to: probation, suspension, removal, dismissal, or expulsion from the institution?”

  1. YES! Some hs have a clear "one strike policy." And in some cases, it's absurd. Adcoms know that. That's why they read the explanations. Some here act like adcoms will freak and auto-reject. NOT.

In the explanation, she should be honest, contrite (a word we often use on CC, not slaying yourself,) and reflect the lesson learned. On the hs’s part, they said they would support her with their letter. I’m presuming they’ll say, in effect: great gal, never gave us any trouble, this is a mistake, we have no ongoing concerns, etc.

Bear in mind: no one knows how to write a counselor letter or other letter of support like a toney private high school. No, we won’t see the letter, but it’s not uncommon for them to support a kid they feel made a simple mistake, despite the policy to take this seriously.

  1. If this was a suspendable action, from what OP writes, they are NOT applying that. For whatever reason, they have that leeway. Rather than break it apart and go crazy disputing it, let's accept that's what this school is doing.
  2. On "academic misconduct," that may apply, if she used an e-book and didn't properly cite it. Or missed a few cites in a long section. It may not have been allowed to write her report based in any way on a secondary source. We don't know. (Using a secondary source, in researching, is fine. But basing some sections on the secondary may not be ok. We don't know, for tis project.) Lots written about the confusion and how important accurate notes are, re: where an idea came from.

OP has said, from the beginning, that she wants the right perspective, that she was hesitant about the rat race of top colleges, for this child. Give her credit for that.

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This is the second time I’ve composed a post while the OP was writing hers, in which she ended up answering something I’d asked.

Hi, OP.

@karen0 wrote:

“DDs paper was 30 pages before endnotes. On almost 2 solid pages she used a secondary source instead of the primary source, but for one of the paragraphs she omitted a non scholarly source (she was not allowed to use). Regardless of how I feel, the consequence is a suspension (which they are not making her take), she will need to fill out the additional supplement in the CA, in will not be on her academic transcript. Her college councilor will write a letter supporting her as a great member of the school community, leader and student.”

I think this is the clearest description we’ve received so far (of both the offense and the consequence.) As I understand it now, there are three clear elements:

  1. she used a secondary, rather than primary, source for most of two pages of a 30 page paper.
  2. she used a prohibited non-academic source for one paragraph of the paper.
  3. she failed to cite the prohibited source.

These are the consequences, if I understand correctly:

  1. rewriting the paper this summer
  2. suspension, which she is not required to serve (is this because the year is ending?)

Institutional support, as described in this post and earlier, will include:

  1. counselor’s letter (is this separate from the counselor’s regular recommendation letter?) will include the support and praise described above
  2. faculty letter(s) noting that this is an aberration in DD’s otherwise excellent performance.

Are these facts all correct?

If so, I recommend 1) ensuring that DD has academic support as she moves forward to senior year (two/three hours of sleep per night for weeks indicates either executive function struggles or an academic mismatch — or both) and 2) really learning from this incident (one doesn’t accidentally use a prohibited research source; that’s a big deal) and 3) moving forward with any/all college applications DD originally intended, plus a few schools that appear to be “safeties” from the perspective of forgiveness of academic misconduct such as this. I’m not sure how to identify these schools, or whether CC members will be able to help, but I see that you’re already on the hunt for these and I support this effort.

Wishing only good things for DD’s future. It sounds like she was overwhelmed and exhausted, was sloppy about the secondary source, made a very bad (and serious) decision regarding the use of a prohibited source and the failure to cite it, but is an otherwise excellent student and, more importantly, is a good person.

If it were my child, I would encourage her to take the bull by the horns in the college application process, writing a supplemental letter of her own — directed to the Deans of Admission at the dream schools she now believes she might as well leave off her list because there is no hope. In my opinion, owning this mistake, in the most positive way possible, is the best course of action. I like the suggestion, made in a prior post, that she take on some community service within her school, especially involving younger students. Can she help with class sessions introducing young students to proper citation procedures, for example? Serve as a TA helping to verify sources submitted by kids in the early grades? Etc. Regardless of whether doing so has a positive effect on college admissions, DD moving past the shame of it all to actively owning it, to using the experience constructively to help others would be a wonderful evolution for DD.

@karen0, this is so tough, and it’s clear you’re doing your best to navigate the situation and to support your daughter. Keep your chin up. Hugs to you.

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Not “faculty letters,” but one from the principal, as I understand it. That’s also a positive sign.

Separately, she still needs the right LoRs. If this particular teacher is awful, skip him/her. If D is unsure about this teacher, she can talk to him/her. A normal kid-teacher convo about his/her view of her and willingness to write a good letter. Same as any kid should do.

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"ensuring that DD has academic support as she moves forward to senior year (two/three hours of sleep per night for weeks indicates either executive function struggles or an academic mismatch — or both) "

Or a teenager procrastinating and getting into a bind. I personally don’t buy into the idea, unlike some on CC, that all shortcomings of students are due to learning disabilities.

"moving forward with any/all college applications DD originally intended, plus a few schools that appear to be “safeties” from the perspective of forgiveness of academic misconduct such as this. "

“at the dream schools she now believes she might as well leave off her list because there is no hope”

Perhaps one lesson learned from this situation is that the student might prefer a college that is less of an academic grind/pressure cooker for her and that the list should be tailored toward finding such a place and not prestige which will lead to some changes from the original list.

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@karen0 it sounds like you are resigned to what the consequences are for your D. I am from CA and the UC’s have their own application. Wake Forest (my son goes there and loves it) and Georgetown have their own application. Also do a search here on CC to see what other options you might have. That said I don’t know if they ask the question you are concerned about but good to check in too. Good Luck to your daughter!! Love and support her like you are doing she really needs it now :smile:

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Regardless of anything else, this is just crazy, whether it’s an “absolute” workload issue or a time management issue. It’s not just crazy, it’s unhealthy (and I hope your teen wasn’t behind the wheel of a car on 2 hours sleep a night). Application issues aside, please find ways to help her manage her workloads in healthier and more sustainable ways - this is total burnout territory. I am so glad you and her at least have a summer vacation to recharge and refocus. Best of luck.

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“Things have likely changed a lot since you were a child and if your child’s high school doesn’t teach to and hold students to college standards,”

I quickly googled some selective universities and looks like HS and college are a little different wrt plagiarism, first and foremost is that students are told, that when in doubt, consult the instructor. Why this wasn’t done in this situation, not sure. Second if you’re accused of academic dishonesty, you get an advocate, at these schools, not hung out to dry like what’s happening here.

“rather than rushing thoughtlessly to every kid’s defense.”

I don’t think people are defending the kid, she made a mistake for sure, the issue is the punishment.

“Bashing private schools”

But administrators make mistakes right, even at private schools. Are you saying that every decision made at private schools is the right one? That’s an untenable position for sure, I think if it were a public school, you’d get the same reaction. You have to acknowledge that this could have been the wrong thing to do.

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You may want to check your state’s public schools. Many have their own applications (e.g. the SUNY application for NY public schools).

Also, many schools that do use The Common Application have it only as an option and also have their own application that can be used instead.

Obviously, open admission community colleges are likely to have trivial applications rather than use The Common Application.

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Dont catastrophize this. And don’t hide this. It was a sloppy mistake and D is learning from this. This should not alter the trajectory of her Admissions if her applications deal with this in a thoughtful manner.

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If she’s getting a letter of explanation and support from this particular head of school (if it’s where I think), it will go a long way. He’s very well respected. IMO the fact that this school is so demanding and upfront about their student’s transgressions is part of the reason why they do so well with college placement.

Even if it’s not the school I’m thinking about, the same likely holds.

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I think the school’s college office can and will be helpful in guiding the family through the application process and helping the daughter craft a response to the the disciplinary action that will be contrite, thoughtful, and will show that lessons have been learned. I’m not one to usually recommend private college counselors (as I don’t think they are usually needed) but if the OP feels that the college office isn’t providing this partnership with the student (and I’d be truly surprised by that), perhaps it might be a good idea to hire a private college counselor in this instance. But, for me, that would be a last resort.

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@karen0 - New perspective here but I have not reviewed over 200 of the comments…

I agree with @doschicos comments above (earlier this morning). If it’s honestly a mistake, hit it head-on. Acknowledge the positives of attending a school that is willing to call this on a student, and that several at the school are willing to vouch for her in spite of this. Learn from this, both in terms of the process but also as an opportunity to access strengths and weaknesses in the student. As Doschicos points out…maybe it’s just too much pressure…too much rigor.

Assuming that’s not your assessment, then play offense. Get to the schools and interview. Explain the situation if possible in an interview. If it was truly a mistake, it will come through. If the mistake was getting caught…that will come through as well.

I believe admissions professionals get pretty good at analyzing these situations. In the odd world in which we live, it’s possible that addressing this head on and taking responsibility will give you a leg up in the admissions process. Your current schools’ transparency gives everything else from them a sense of honesty. Good recommendations and a solid transcript might carry more weight. Make lemonade…don’t throw away the lemons.

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“Explain the situation if possible in an interview. If it was truly a mistake, it will come through. If the mistake was getting caught…that will come through as well.”

I’d be careful with that approach. The adcoms aren’t going to see the assignment in question. Who would you believe sitting in the adcom seat? A well-regarded team of academic professionals at an esteemed secondary school or a teen sitting across from you. The solution, IMO, isn’t to explain the situation. The solution is to talk about the learning process and personal growth as a result. But I do think we are basically saying the same thing. Own it, learn from it, move on. Adcoms know teenagers make mistakes…and can learn from them. This isn’t insurmountable.

I’d rather spend the limited interview time focusing on positives about myself as a candidate and stuff that doesn’t find its way onto the application in detail. The disciplinary action will be addressed from multiple angles and people in the application. I’m not sure rehashing it in an interview is the best idea.

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Not in an interview. The interviewer won’t have seen the app, if it’s an alum or student. You’d blindside them and they’re not prepared to evaluate this or properly write it up. No voting rights.

I’d even suggest caution before mentioning to the area rep who visits. Not the time or place, unless the GC directs this, will have her own chat.

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^^^ fair point. I was thinking of my kids, and I’d roll the dice on their likability and honesty. That said, it is risky. You also run the risk of appearing to have avoided the situation if the Adcom sees it later. Then they may start to question their (previously positive) assessment.

If it wasn’t positive…then it doesn’t matter.

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@karen0, Your daughter will learn many lessons from this episode. Beyond the obvious ones about time management, citing sources, and not cutting corners are a number of lessons that will be even more valuable as she grows into adulthood.

She can make a mistake, but if she owns up to it and makes sure she doesn’t repeat it people will still like and respect her. Every adult I know has make a regretful mistake at one time or another. It’s how you deal with the aftermath that defines your character. The overall regard she has earned with many many years of hard work will not be destroyed if she is forthright and honest in dealing with the consequences. (I suspect this is the message her school is trying to send her in not making her serve her suspension OOS)

Mom and Dad will always be there to support her. By this I don’t mean by intervening with the school or covering up her mistake, but by standing by her and giving her emotional and moral support as she deals with a difficult challenge.

Mom and Dad have confidence in her and value the person she is over the prestige of a particular college. She can be resilient and do great things and the name of her undergraduate college will not in any way define her. One mistake will not crush her or alter her life in any significant way.

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" I was thinking of my kids, and I’d roll the dice on their likability and honesty. That said, it is risky. You also run the risk of appearing to have avoided the situation if the Adcom sees it later. Then they may start to question their (previously positive) assessment."

To me, that would be like leading with your side of the story on how you got fired in a job interview. Not something you want to do. :slight_smile:

Don’t bring up the negatives. An applicant is much more than one slip up and the interview time shouldn’t dwell on one moment in a young person’s life especially when it will be dealt with by the school and applicant in a thoughtful manner elsewhere.

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I still think the school’s punishment is weird and warped and wrong. Even though my 3 went to rigorous private schools, I don’t hold these schools in the state of awe that others here do. Those decisions can be capricious and inconsistent…and wrong. It’s not a matter of high standards or “honor”, it’s a stubborn distortion of reality. I think that annoys me most. Obviously, that’s my opinion and that’s all it is. At least it’s not a mark on the transcript and it’s something that can be explained and its effects ameliorated through the support of the head of school.

That said, I have never approached this from the standpoint that all is lost in college admissions. If anything, I believe this is a * good * thing in that it liberates the girl and the family from looking at the process in the lockstep way that many of her classmates will, and it allows her to think more carefully about fit. It opens up a whole new perspective and a whole new universe of schools. In no way am I suggesting that she is now limited in her school choices. If she decides she wants to pursue that reachy reach school, she certainly may do so. Having been through the college search process three times in the context of private high schools, I know full well how difficult it is to go against the tide when the prevailing theme is the hunt for elite schools. I’m not bashing elite colleges, just the narrow perspective that they are all there is. That can feel oppressive.

I also agree with many who think this is an excellent opportunity to look inward, accept responsibility for the mistake, and learn from it. It sounds like it may have come from some procrastination and from general overload. I get that. I’ve seen that at work with my three at times as well and I feel for this girl. If she started the real work of a major paper at spring break, she was not keeping pace with it. The big paper for AP US History at my children’s two different high schools demanded long, sustained effort over the course of a year. I can easily see that compressing that into a two week period would require sleepless nights and less than perfect work. I’m still not clear whether she was allowed to ask the teacher for guidance in citations or not, but if she was doing the bulk of the work over spring break, she may have lost any opportunity to do so and put herself in this precarious position. She’s in a far better position going forward to understand the consequences that come from less than great time management than if she’d gotten through this unscathed. She can learn to set priorities, watch for the signs of procrastination and stop them in their tracks, and to build new habits. Many people don’t learn that lesson until much later in life.

@karen0 I wish you and your daughter the very best. I still think the school’s response was disproportionate but I get that you are accepting it for what it is. I hope you are able to help your daughter put this in perspective and to keep going strong. Hug her and support her and encourage her to accept responsibility for a mistake. Encourage her to meet with her college counselor frequently and get feedback as she develops her college list and her application.