help! liberal arts vs. arts college?

carolyn · November 25, 2005, 7:29pm

My daughter is also facing this choice. Her list is entirely composed of LACs, with one small public university thrown into the mix (that last one is also the only art program with any sort of national accreditation, although which accreditation it has escapes me at the moment) She might be open to adding one or two additional schools, but will not consider an art school and draws the line at any school over 5,000 undergraduates (which rules out, for instance, schools like Syracuse).

Here’s my question: what should she look at and consider when evaluating the art departments at these various schools, given that they are obviously going to be more limited in scope than an art college? Potential career options she’s thrown out include art education, interior design, and animation. Obviously, an LAC is not going to offer specialization in any of these fields, so additional work would be necessary after graduation. But, what should she look at or be aware of in terms of preparing for that additional work down the road?

mauretania · November 26, 2005, 9:20am

Hello, Carolyn!
It’s been awhile but I had looked at LAC’s with art departments and came across some articles (I’m sorry I don’t have them anymore or the website links). I do remember reading about Temple University and the other was Hollins (but it was a girls school, though maybe that’s changed?). Take a look at their art department websites. It’s too bad she’s not looking at Syracuse since that has a really good art department.

Anyway, back to your question: I would look at the level of the “basics” (drawing, painting, sculpture) since that’s where a student needs a solid foundation. Also, ask if they do figure drawing. That seems to be important.

What schools is she applying to? Is this for next fall?

nightfly · November 26, 2005, 9:30am

There are alot of excellent choices mentioned so far, but I wanted to add one more:

Susquehanna has an excellent Graphic Design program. They offer Studio Art too but I do not have direct knowledge about it.

mackinaw · November 26, 2005, 10:00am

Carolyn, if your daughter is looking for “smaller” schools but not necessarily LAC’s, then she should consider Carnegie Mellon (CMU) (with about 5,000 undergrads), which has excellent art and design departments (as well as other fine arts), business, liberal arts, and engineering. A number of kids of my colleagues have attended (though in engineering), but it was high on my daughter’s list and she applied there in art. Taxguy wrote an extended review of it, as I recall.

mackinaw · November 26, 2005, 10:55am

When my DD was looking for colleges in which to study art, she didnt consider any LACs. Ive posted elsewhere that the amount of exposure to actual studio work will be roughly 50% in an LAC as it is in art school, with the amount in a university with a strong studio art program (e.g., CMU, Syracuse) being roughly midway between the two. So there are trade-offs of studio art time against other curricula at an LAC. For many students these are trade-offs readily and even eagerly made, since theres always the possibility of going on to specialized training in art at the MFA level later.

That said, Carolyn has asked what to look for in art programs at LACs. Heres what I would recommend as an approach, not as definitive or hard and fast rules.

<ol>
<li>Make sure the art department has at least 3 full-time regular (not temporary or adjunct) faculty who are artists by training (generally speaking this means have BFAs or MFAs in a studio art discipline). Many LAC art departments have a mixture of artists and art historians, which is fine; but for the future artist, foundation training in art is very important. The 3+ actual artists should have different specialties or interests (e.g., graphics, photography, painting-drawing, sculpture). Look at where the faculty earned their degrees as well as their teaching and work experience as artists.</li>
<li>Make sure the art department gives emphasis to a strong foundation in drawing and visual concepts. Look at how hierarchical the course structure is, read the course descriptions, imagine how the studio courses and homework fits in with the rest of the curriculum in the college.</li>
<li>Visit the campus, explore the facilities, ask about access to the facilities (should be 18 hrs a day, at least for those that are just studio space), how space (lockers, work space) is allocated to individual students. Talk to current students and faculty.</li>
<li>Look at the art on campus: products of students, products of faculty, exhibitions and shows, art-oriented lectures. How good is it? (Subjective judgment, of course,) How many students and faculty have entered competitions and shows off campus? Is this encouraged? How have they fared?</li>
<li>Get data on where the graduates with an art major have gone next. What percentage have gone on to study or work as artists? What percentage have gone on to earn MFAs or other art-related degrees? Dont just look for the (probably select) few who may have become well known. Are any of those connected with the LAC still? Can you contact them and ask whether studying art at this LAC would be a good idea?</li>
</ol>

carolyn · November 26, 2005, 2:52pm

Thank you very much Mackinaw. That was very helpful, especially the suggestion to look at the number of full time faculty and specific art program. Right now, D’s top choices are:

<ul>
<li>Humboldt State here in California, which has a full-fledged accredited art program with 500 majors, 25 full time faculty (about 20 are MFA’s teaching art not art history) and a very broad foundation with about five different areas of specialization, including art ed certification. Requirements for art degree are approximately 45 credit hours in art. From an art perspective, this is probably the best school on her list, but from an overall academic perspective it is probably not as challenging (way lower stats for admitted students, very low 4 year graduation rate). It has 5,000 undergraduates. Daughter’s already been accepted.</li>
<li>Goucher college in Baltimore. The department there has 8 full time art (not art history) teachers, plus adjuncts. Approximately 20 majors.
Opportunity to cross-register for one class a semester at MICA and at Towson State. Art education certification possible as well. Daughter very much wants to study abroad, and Goucher has an exchange agreement with the Glascow school of art in Scotland (one year program, usually in junior year) which would be strictly art courses, not liberal arts. 30 credit units required for graduation, but fairly open core requirements (only 5 GE requirements)so could take additional art courses. Has a program in historic rennovation, operated jointly between art and history departments, that my daughter is very interested in. </li>
<li>Beloit College in Wisconsin - art department is fairly typical of liberal arts colleges - 5 faculty members. Not sure about number of majors. Fairly extensive art curriculum, on campus museum with extensive collection that also hosts numerous visiting artist shows, museum studies minor possible (which is an interest of my daughters as well). Probably the most academically challenging school of the three. GE requirements fairly extensive (30 credit hours). As with Goucher, 30 credit hours required for graduation.</li>
</ul>

Last night daughter told me that she’s simply dropping the other schools she’s had on her list (including one she already has an application in at) because they are either too small or don’t offer the kind of art she wants. Earlham, for instance, is a school she loves but their art department is crafts-focused (weaving, ceramics, metalsmithing) and, while she wouldn’t mind taking courses in those areas, she doesn’t want to concentrate on them, wants a broader art program.

She did say that she wants to add other schools to her list, perferrably smaller (under 5,000) and on the west coast, but will consider other areas as well. Does not like “preppy” schools so Chapman, Loyola Marymount have already been ruled out.

Any advice or insights or suggestions would be most appreciated. On the one hand, I’m very happy for her that she’s decided to pursue an art major, but as up until now we’ve only been thinking in terms of an art minor, or at least being able to take art classes, this decision has thrown a wrench in the works just as applications are due. :)

momrath · November 26, 2005, 9:06pm

Carolyn, A little eleventh hour drama to get the old adrenalin flowing? :)

What we learned about LAC art departments was a two part process – what we thought to look for during search and selection and what we found was available after my son was enrolled. I wrote in an earlier post #20 about some of the points that we used to evaluate from afar. As a student, what has most impressed my son about studio art at his college (and in retrospect the most important) has been the following:

<ol>
<li>Access to sophisticated equipment, like printmaking facilities, especially in tandem with classes and instructors who are able and willing to teach the process. Clean, well lit studio space that kids can get to safely in the middle of the night. Students working 24/7.</li>
<li>A vibrant and involved career placement service that offers a chance to interact with alums who have gone on to successful careers in the arts – architecture, advertising, teaching as well as pure studio art. The opportunity to interact with people who have been there, done that with a studio art degree.</li>
<li>Willingness of the faculty to get to know students and write recommendations for internships and graduate programs. Clear, concise written evaluations. Plenty of conference time, advising, informal tete a tetes.</li>
<li>Involvement of the faculty in the global art world with evidence of awards, shows, a continuum of work. For example, one of my son’s instructors showed in the Whitney Biennial which provided a fascinating window into art elitism. Exposure to museums, either on campus or in field trips. Opportunities to show student work on campus.</li>
<li>If the studio art department is combined with another discipline – e.g., art history, architecture, design – one area usually wields the power. This hierarchy can lead to an undercurrent of competitiveness for funding which the students can get caught up in and even within a studio art department certain media can be dominant at the expense of others. Ultimately my son chose art history as his major over studio art. Not the reason for his decision but as an observation, at his school the artists seem at odds with the art historians.</li>
<li>Process vs theory. Some people enjoy making art. Some enjoy talking about it. A balance of both is best, but it’s essential first to master the process. This is not as obvious as it sounds. My husband attended what was at the time a prestigious art school and nobody taught him how to DO anything. Technical skills – like stretching a canvas, working power tools, developing film – were almost distained. Students were meant to have acquired them prior to attending. If they hadn’t, they had to scramble on their own. </li>
</ol>

As far as your daughters specific interests:

Education is fairly simple to assess, whether a student is interested in teaching biology or art. Most LACs have some kind of support program that helps channel kids into teaching. Interior design is unlikely to be found at any LAC; however, architectural drawing and design which is related is quite common. Animation could be covered in advanced drawing courses which are also commonly found, but anything technology driven is for the most part woefully lacking at most LACs. They just seem to be behind the curve on computer skills and the need for the same.

As far as specific suggestions: I’d suggest she take another look at Skidmore, Conn College and Kenyon. All of these seemed to have studio art departments with respectable critical mass. My son didn’t visit Vassar or Bard so I don’t have firsthand impressions, but these are also usual suspects in the arts area.

carolyn · November 27, 2005, 5:31pm

Thanks Momrath, some very important things to consider, especially about the “politics” of various art departments. I’d think that would be very imporant at smaller schools in particular.

Unfortunately, Vassar is out of my daughter’s league, and Bard and Kenyon would probably be reachy for her as well during their RD rounds.

But yes, this is definitely a bit of last minute drama that was totally unexpected. Just goes to show how you can think everything is all on track and planned out, and WHAM! you get hit on the side of the head with wind pushing in another direction.

help! liberal arts vs. arts college?

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