Help me choose: Hopkins (2/3 tuition scholarship [$44k]) vs Emory (full ride [$4k, start at Oxford campus]) vs WashU (full tuition scholarship [$28k]) vs Yale (full pay [$91k]) for pre-med

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41

That’s one of my main concerns right now if I’m being honest - I am absolutely planning fully on going to medical school but I can’t guarantee my mindset will be the same once orgo comes around.

If I don’t go premed though, the only alternatives I can picture are public health or international studies both with a hope for working in the heart of the US government. Princeton is the best school in the country for IS, yet Yale and Hopkins are both often ranked in the top 5 for both those programs. Emory is ranked very highly for public health too.

42

I’m sure it’s somewhat present everywhere but I didn’t realize it as so jarring anywhere besides WashU to the point that both my mom and I came to this conclusion separately after our first day. Emory and Hopkins I didn’t find to be this way, Yale I’ll have to revisit on Bulldogs Day but from memory it wasn’t notable.

43

Sounds like Hopkins is currently the top choice?

It is very solid in everyway. Based on what you said, you can’t go wrong choosing Hopkins.

44

There are a dozen or more careers you might love.

I know someone who opted off the med school track and is now an epidemiologist with a pharma company. (has a Master’s degree, so much shorter track than an MD). She tracks and models disease transmission all over the world, both to aid development of new treatments and protocols, and to make sure that the right meds are in the right country at the right time. At one point she had considered vet school- and so the fact that has to monitor animal, animal to human, and human to human infection is very cool for her.

I have a friend who trained as a nurse, and is now in charge of managing the patient side of clinical trials. She has several people who work for her; they are responsible for recruiting the right patients (not every person with a particular disease is a match for a trial- there are strict limits around who can be considered), managing their experience (which for patients who have a terminal diagnosis is not easy), managing the reporting protocols (what if a doctor who is part of the trial hasn’t noticed, or thinks it’s not relevant that a few patients are losing their hair or have an itchy abdomen?) and making sure that side effects and deaths are being tracked appropriately.

And yet another- a Big Data analyst with a device company. Very frequently things are developed for a certain purpose (a type of mesh for cataract surgery? a specific needle for premature babies?) and it turns out they don’t work for that. But his job is to figure out if there is a different application that WOULD make the invention commercially successful. Degree in applied math, no masters at all.

You are going to be amazed at how many cool careers there are out there… even if you end up loving Organic Chemistry!

I’d keep my options open…

45

No reason to abandon pre med - it’s just a class list and advising. You’ve not even started.

You’ll know in a year or two whether to abandon.

In the end, it comes back to budget. Let’s say you go to Yale and it’s $91K right now - so let’s say $400K.

So you go to Yale - and now you decide to go to Medical School - how are you able to go budget wise?

Personally, and I get you might not / likely won’t go to med school - although you’d then need an MPH or MHA and that costs too - but if they spend $400K on Yale, then how does funding for grad school work? I’m not sure that Yale, btw, in healthcare reputationally beats Emory - I guess everyone can have different opinions.

The other thing about med school is - does it matter where you go? I live in TN so it will be a TN slant. A doctor is a doctor - what people look for is - are they in the insurance network. So I provided this list from the practice I go to - so would the school (Yale or UConn given your example even though you’re not considering it) - would it matter? And I think the same statement could be made for the MPH.

Just something to think about…and to talk with your folks about. Me personally and I agree with @blossom - where do I want to be if it doesn’t pan out - should be a consideration. But I also think you don’t walk in with a plan - and yet don’t plan for it - because if you choose JHU or Yale full pay - then what does years 5-6 look like financially or 5-8? Me personally, I’d be looking at 5-8 and if I don’t end up in grad school, oh well, then I have more money in the pocket!!

Also - one last thing - can you ask to speak to a Woodruff Scholar from Oxford - because it looks like there’s overlap (starting in semester 3 with Emory) - maybe they do things to integrate the groups, etc.

Finally, your last comment on race and integration. It’s awesome when you see students or people in society integrated. I travel for work and walk a lot of campuses - just a hobby. I definitely see some places where mixed race groups of students are hanging out - but in general - I think many places groups do segregate by race - and not just in class but in work and other areas as well. I even took notice at info sessions, etc. - so that might be prevalent everywhere although individuals themselves can work to ensure that’s overcome.

Good luck.

PS - here’s the doctor list I mentioned at a local practice just to show - the “pedigree” of your undergrad - may not matter as much as people think for med school.

Good discussion. I hope you get to the right spot for you.

graduated with a BA in Biology from the Honors Program at Missouri Southern State University in 1994. He then graduated from the University of Missouri School of Medicine in 1998

completed medical school at Indiana University School of Medicine

Doctor of Medicine degree from East Tennessee State University

She attended Lipscomb University, and then completed medical school at University of Louisville

and attended the University of Georgia, where she graduated summa cum laude with highest honors with a Bachelor of Science degree in both Biology and Psychology. She completed her medical degree at Vanderbilt University School of Medicine in Nashville, TN, a

Received his undergraduate degree from the University of Tennessee. He graduated from the University of Tennessee, College of Medicine


tsbna44

13h

received a Bachelor’s degree in Biochemistry from the University of Tennessee-Knoxville, and later his medical degree from the University of Tennessee-Memphis College of Medicine.

Bachelor’s of Science in Biology at Duke University, where she graduated magna cum laude. She was also included into Phi Beta Kappa. graduated from Vanderbilt University Medical School in 2007.

from the University of Tennessee, Memphis School of Medicine

Bachelor of Science in Biology from Sewanee: The University of the South. She attended medical school in Memphis, Tennessee, at the University of Tennessee, Health Science Center College of Medicine

His Bachelor’s degree in History was received from Haverford College near Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, while his medical degree is from University of Vermont College of Medicine,

Center College of Danville, Kentucky, with a Bachelor of Science degree in Biochemistry and Molecular Biology. After this, he attended medical school at the University of Kentucky

She attended Lipscomb University, and then completed medical school at University of Louisville.

graduated with a BA in Biology from the Honors Program at Missouri Southern State University in 1994. He then graduated from the University of Missouri School of Medicine in 1998

completed medical school at Indiana University School of Medicine

Doctor of Medicine degree from East Tennessee State University

She attended Lipscomb University, and then completed medical school at University of Louisville

and attended the University of Georgia, where she graduated summa cum laude with highest honors with a Bachelor of Science degree in both Biology and Psychology. She completed her medical degree at Vanderbilt University School of Medicine in Nashville, TN, a

Received his undergraduate degree from the University of Tennessee. He graduated from the University of Tennessee, College of Medicine

46

Take Emory off the list, even though financially it’s the best deal. Half your college career at a place you will dislike is too steep a price. One of my sons went to the Oxford campus and adored it, so I am not saying it’s a bad place. But it is not for everyone!! There is literally nothing within walking distance, and the campus is tiny so there isn’t much going on there. It is the quietest campus I’ve ever seen on a Saturday night.

Emory does run shuttles to the main campus so it’s possible for a bit more excitement if someone wants it. But I think all your cons are thoughtful and reasonable.

If you were my child, I would be advising a choice between JHU, because you love it, and Yale, because I believe the opportunities you will have for your lifetime are worth the $$$. Especially if you decide against med school, which most premeds do.

You can see from all the responses that families’ values vary widely. So really, you’ll have to choose based on your values – because there is no one right answer here.

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47

I would take Emory off the list if you have to go to Oxford. I work a few blocks from JHU and it is not dangerous. But Baltimore is a city and does get sketchy in some areas. I am a Yale parent so I do highly recommend it for 2 reasons undergrad experience and opportunities it provides. Yale has a great 5 year Public Health program. That being said and med school on the horizon my list would be 1. JHU (you seem to really like it) 2. Yale (It’s Yale) 3. WashU (good school and great price). I would go to Bulldog days and see if Yale sings to you. If it does not then it is not worth the price.

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48

I think you are very wise to be thinking about what college you would still want to be attending if you decide not to complete pre-med. And Hopkins does sound like a great fit in that scenario–I’m not sure people always understand how it operates as a de facto DC school in those fields.

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49

As an exercise, have you considered which school you would like to attend if costs were not a consideration? As it appears now, if you are not a great fit for JHU, I’m not sure who would be.

50

It looks like all of them are affordable…except Yale. My opinion, $400,000 for a bachelors degree isn’t worth it, even if you can afford it. That’s more than medical school. Save that money for medical school, you’re going to need it. Seriously, I think you have a good thing with Hopkins.

Here’s my advice. Choose a school you’re happy at and go in with an open mind. There’s a good chance you’ll end up changing your major, so make sure you choose a school you like.

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51

You do not know that Yale is unaffordable for this family. In no post does the OP say this.

As I said earlier, choosing the right school will be a product of this family’s values. I understand that to you being full pay anywhere isn’t worth it. However hundreds of thousands of families have different values, and to them it has been worth it. The OP just needs to figure out which decision aligns with their family’s values. Which is not something we on CC can do.

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52

This is my concern - OP can afford these it sounds like - but can they afford years 5-6 or 5-8.

That’s a discussion I’d have with my family before choosing. Has the family/student looked further out than a four year degree - because they have in desires.

What is clear here is the student struck gold!!! They did really well.!!

53

I am sure there are plenty of families who would go the full-pay route for a pre-med major ahead of an even more potentially expensive med school, but I think on cc I would generally “err” on the side of prudence and suggest the sanest recommendation. Most would agree that not going to Yale full pay when someonehas JHU with 2/3 tuition scholarship and EMory full ride is pretty much the only sane option. The OP and their family can certainly go against the grain but I wouldnt be comfortable advocating for Yale.

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54

Wow “the only sane option”??! That’s a little strong.

Check out the “Groupthink” thread for just this situation.

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55

I think tsbna44 has it right in that you will need to consider if the full pay will deplete your funding for med/graduate school. If the answer is yes then you will need to take this into consideration when choosing. And I would advise if you can not justify the full pay then do not go to Bulldog days because you will fall in love with the school and community.

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56

I looked it up. Apparently 54 percent of students at Yale receive financial aid. Which means that 46 percent DON’T. Given the stats required to get in, many of those kids would have been in line for serious merit-based aid elsewhere. But they went to Yale. They can’t all be insane.

For the record if I was really rich and my kid got into Harvard full-pay, versus free ride at a top state flagship (Michigan, UVA, Florida State) I’d send them to the latter.

But I don’t think you have to be insane to think otherwise.

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57

I still think I wouldn’t be recommending it as a sane option to someone else who is also going to incur another $400K+ in medical school expenses. I will let them make that high risk decision.l on their own rather than nudging them towards it.

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58

I agree that this is the key point.

Maybe the family has enough funding for full pay undergrad AND med/grad school (would that be a total of $800k-ish?). In that case Yale’s cost is not a problem.

Maybe the family is only willing to pay for undergrad and the student will be taking loans for med/grad school regardless? In that case as long as the family is willing to pay for Yale, its cost is not a problem (for the student).

But if full pay Yale means less money for med/grad school, they’ll want to think about how they would pay for med/grad school.

I wouldn’t say it’s insane to consider Yale, but if they don’t have $800k or equivalent cashflow to cover full pay Yale + med/grad school, finances are something to think about.

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59

OP has lots of great options. It sounds like financials aside, this would come down to Yale vs. Hopkins. It’s not entirely clear which OP prefers, even aside from the financial picture.

The financial part is obviously important, but we don’t know how critical it is, both in terms of absolute affordability, or OP’s particular family’s values. From the discussion above, it does not seem absolute, which it would be for some families.

It’s important to look at the entire picture:

  • How much of a strain would full pay place on the family?
  • Would options for other siblings be impacted?
  • Would future plans/options be impacted (e.g., career choices, med school debt)

I think the OP should have a candid family discussion about these things.

My wife and I are both physicians. I was the middle child in a middle class family, but was fortunate to be able to go to “dream” schools for undergraduate, medicine, and law with no debt for any, something that would be virtually impossible today. My wife was 1st gen immigrant who got a full ride undergrad to a “dream” school, and then went to state med school to keep cost down. We appreciate how fortunate we were, and want our kids to not be limited in their choices. As 2 physicians, we are full pay with 2 kids, and while we both work our tails off and are definitely not in the “25 million 2nd house” category, we are fortunate in being able to afford whatever options work out, with a non-trivial amount of effort. But each family is different.

If I were OP, I would ask:

  1. What is my absolute ranking of my available options, aside from cost, and how much of a difference in preference is there between the options?

  2. Which options would my family realistically be able/willing to afford, looking at the long-term picture (other siblings, potential future educational expenses), and without taking on significant debt or restricting long-term options.

There’s no absolute right or wrong (or “sane”) answer, just what best fits OP and their family.

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60

Seriously? If it was me or my kids Emory all the way! And it is not rural. It is in Atlanta!
Flying to Atlanta from NYC is not an issue. Delta, Spirit etc.
My kids had pediatrician who graduated from Emory. We have 2 family friends doctors who went to Emory for undergraduate and medical school.

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