<p>I will be the executrix of my mother’s estate when the time comes. One thing that has put my mind at ease to some extent is that I’ve met her estate planning attorney, and she (my mom) has met my financial adviser, who will be helping me settle the estate. Having had a relationship of sorts with the attorney and financial adviser means I won’t be scrambling to find these professionals in my time of grief. And it also makes me feel good that my mom also trusts these individuals.</p>
<p>I believe the is no court in the US that would fault the OP for seeking counsel from an attorney on the steps to take regarding the estate. No way could the heirs dispute that this is a legitimate expenditure to at least have an initial consultation with them, or likely for them to help with the actual estate taxes (not the individual, but for the estate entity), or create any filings required by the court. The OP should NOT consult the heirs. It is entirely proper (and in fact unusual to not) to engage an attorney. It is pretty clear that the OP really doesn’t have a grasp on their responsibilties – it seems to me they are MORE likely to get sued if they don’t get an attorney and get a complete understanding of their responsibilities very soon.</p>
<p>Yes, attorneys cost money. On the gross amount of a $1 million estate ($2 million in assets, $1 million in liabilities at the beginning), our attorney fees have been over $75,000. Worth every penny, IMHO (and I and my children are both heirs to this estate, although it is split several other ways and the housing market debacle took a big chunk out of the estate value). Obviously the costs would be much, much less in the OP’s situation. But also note that if you don’t handle the estate correctly, heirs can come back for many years to sue as well unless the estate is properly handled and closed. Yet another “peace of mind” reason why you should consult an attorney.</p>
<p>The attorneys we’re using are $250/hour for an associate and $350/hour for the lead attorney. I’ve spent perhaps 30 hours of my time so far on the phone and internet gathering information about my MIL’s various accounts, filling out forms, writing letters and scanning documents. I had never considered being paid for my time, and now that I’m reading that the executor’s time could be taxable I’m definitely not going to be paid. But I do take satisfaction in knowing that I’m saving the estate thousands of dollars. </p>
<p>One bit of info from the attorney that we didn’t know is that in my MIL’s state an IRA is subject to inheritance tax, so we need to set aside even more to pay the taxes than we thought :(</p>
<p>So far the attorney the attorney we have used for relative’s estate has cost less than 10% of the probate fees she’s saved and guided the executor to make the process run smoother. The fees he has been paid are also a small fraction of the savings to date. </p>
<p>The attorney fees are legit estate expenses and NOT personal expenses of executor. Where there is confusion and demands for money from a beneficiary or heir before the estate is fully settled, it seems past time to consult an attorney in my book. The atty should be able to give an estimate of fees.</p>
<p>Get the estate atty. If you don’t hire one, consider that you only save yourself your % share of whatever the atty costs, but you get 100% of the hassle and worries. The sibling who is pressuring you is out of line. Too bad that they will have to wait! I wouldn’t worry about irritating them, since they obviously haven’t worried about irritating you.</p>
<p>We have an ongoing estate. We have used the accountant more than the atty. Money well spent as there are hassles galore, even with their help. Basically, the atty and accountant gave us a list of things to do, and we are trying to do them.</p>
<p>What I have not figured out yet is whether I should have my own lawyer. We have zero distrust issues, thankfully, but maybe I should consult someone about the best way to handle receipt of some land.</p>
<p>Could the role of a financial planner be to help someone make an estate as simple to inherit as possible? Or would one consult an estate lawyer for that? I usually don’t consult anyone, as I have no contacts and have little idea whom to contact.</p>
<p>There are professionals called estate administrators who often do this kind of work for much less than an attorney. They are at the paralegal level and do the actual work at the direction of the attorney. Often, the total fees and disbursements are one third of what it would cost for an attorney to do the actual work.</p>
<p>Our attorney gave us the legal information and always offered us the option of filing any forms, or doing whatever needed to be done ourselves to save money. We did some things ourselves but paid the attorney to file most of the forms (I hate forms!) – but I liked that he always explained what we needed to do, and always gave us the option to do it ourselves. There were some things that we didn’t know, some things that needed to be done in a certain order. I am quite sure that because of the attorney, we didn’t make a couple of costly blunders that would have (long term) ended up costing more than the fees we paid him. In this case, you may only need the attorney as an advisor, to support your position legally not to disburse any funds until the time is right (all bills have been settled). Yes, that will probably cost a few hundred, but in my opinion would be worth it if the amount you are talking about is more than a few thousand. You have a fiduciary duty to do things properly, or something like that – our the attorney said something like that, and I totally agree. If the siblings are anxious, you could send them a monthly summary of the balance of the account, and what bills you paid, in the interest of keeping everything transparent. However, if you think they will hassle you more if you give them updates, then just keep records and send a summary at the end of the process.</p>
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<p>OP, I keep mulling over this sentence and wondering what you mean. Why is estate in quotes? How are you the “executor”? I thought technically the court needs to actually appoint you to this position (actually called personal representative in most states now). I have a formal document (two actually, first I was just given administrator power, then was formally named a personal representative). I have to present that PR proof fairly often when acting in the name of the estate with a bank, insurance company, mortgage company, etc. This is very straighforward to be named executor and get this document if there is a will and you are named as executor in it and no one challenges that. But you still need this document…</p>
<p>The executor then has control of all assets of the deceased. Even if your mom had joint accounts and TOD accounts, usually the banks want a death certificate as proof, and usually the executor is the one who provides that to them. But any assets in her possession (furniture, jewelry, clothing, automobiles, savings bonds, stock certificates, cash, retirement accounts, etc.) are supposed to be under the control of the executor to inventory and disburse/dispose of properly. So I am confused about your “one bank account” comment.</p>
<p>intparent – I’ll let OP answer your questions but my read on the original post was that estate was in quotes because it was rather modest, and OP was saying that the only real liquid asset was one bank account.</p>
<p>At least in NY, the soon-to-die person (sorry for lack of a better term) can appoint an executor in his/her will. And there’s no outside body that controls or overrides the designation of the executor.</p>
<p>It’s possible, for OP, that the only assets anyone cares about are the dollars in that last account. Money was already rolled into it, anticipating expensive care. Much how it was for my grandmother. Personal items could already have been pared down. No additional assets or circumstances to wade through, except identifying, verifying and satisfying creditors.</p>
<p>The “system” has to confirm a PR or administrator when there is no executor legally designated by the deceased. In many cases, that’s simple- surviving spouse or next of kin. But OP was designated. In my state, that’s a big starting point difference. Executor and PR/admin are different, in the initial definition.</p>
<p>The details don’t really matter. Family relations here are getting damaged due to the fact that the others want the money and are leaning on OP. Getting the attorney as a buffer makes a big difference IMO in these things. Often folks will take the word of some expert who says, “it isn’t done that way due to the risk” but resent Sis saying the same thing.</p>
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<p>Typically it varies by state, I think, but even so the will usually has to be filed somehow and the executor/PR approved. Easy if no one challenges it, but it is an example of a step that needs to happen… and may or may not have in this case. Unless the OP’s mom died without a will (not sure they have said).</p>
<p>There is a specific order in which estate assets are supposed to be distributed. Again… the attorney would have this information for the OP.</p>
<p>^ I wish we knew what OP is dealing with. But the convo is productive for all of us. I would have been where Quant is, aware of huge potential costs and the associated emotions, worried about a lawyer running up expenses. But, it turned out that it just isn’t so, for my past and current experiences. What the various sites all acknowledge, is that this is usually unknown territory for most of us (and at a time of grief,) not our usual bag of experiences and decision-making we can pull from. </p>
<p>Some of us could benefit from a meet with an estate attorney now, to go over our arrangements and learn how final settlements proceed and approximate costs. In the past, I knew folks who, when they moved states, would revisit, with an attorney in the new locale.</p>
<p>To those who say it’s just a matter of lots of web research: I’m good at digesting, but find it all goes where I have never been before. Some info is clear, some leaves rounds of questions. And, you still have to deal with the peculiarities in your locale, who’s available, what new twist was added, whether something actually qualifies as X- or is it Y?</p>
<p>I have been an executor. I would not attempt it without the aid of an attorney. I would never pay an attorney a percentage of the estate. We pay an hourly fee. If it is a very small estate you should be able to pretty much negotiate the top payment during your (free) consultation.</p>
<p>It seems to me, there is a difference in settling estates and inheritances when the family is completely cooperative and when they aren’t. Some issues absolutely have to be resolved legally. Some issues you can do pretty much what you want as long as no family member is going to challenge the outcome. An attorney can tell you what is what.</p>
<p>I would not want to disperse any money from the estate unless the attorney said it was appropriate and I wasn’t putting myself at financial risk for future expenses. I don’t understand all the ins and outs, but one estate (of which I was not executor) got split among numerous cousins. It was a pretty large estate although large is obviously a relative term. If I understood correctly, all of the taxes could have been paid before the distribution. Suddenly all the cousins got a call warning them they owed federal taxes on their inheritances. One family was ticked off because they had already spent the inheritance and not kept any money out. This is a situation we should have avoided - either paid the taxes upfront (which I am not sure was possible) or made sure they understood all the money wasn’t available to spend.</p>
<p>Recently I found out there was some out of state property not included in an estate of which I was executor. I called the (very high priced by the hour estate lawyer) who helped us with this estate hoping he could resolve it. He told me that eventually the property has to go through probate in the other state. He can’t do that for us (because he doesn’t practice in that state) and couldn’t recommend someone off the top of his head. He said he didn’t recommend me trying to do the probate myself, but that I shouldn’t be paying someone more than $200 for the task. This is a very small property. The only reason to even deal with it is the possibility of potential mineral rights.</p>
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<p>When I was executor of my father’s estate, my mother first arranged for me to meet with the youngish attorney son of one of her friends and told me he could use the business. He explained he would charge a percentage of the estate, rather than an hourly fee. My mother was fine with that because he was a friend of the family and obviously had our best interests at heart. I checked with some older relatives and ended up with an attorney who charged by the hour and also had years of experience dealing with estates just like my father’s. We really needed an estate lawyer with a particular specialty. I have been calling him regularly now for about 20 years with various questions and he has never charged for one follow-up phone call. He has provided me with excellent advice.</p>
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<p>I understand some people are smart enough and research oriented enough to find all the information they need to settle estates and go through probate without professional help. For most of us, I don’t think it is the best idea. I use an accountant to prepare our taxes. My accountant talks to me regularly about various aspects of financial planning. He doesn’t charge me for each phone call. I think his advice is well worth the money we pay him.</p>
<p>“I understand some people are smart enough and research oriented enough to find all the information they need to settle estates and go through probate without professional help.”</p>
<p>The Probate Judge for my Mom’s Estate refused to accept any documents not submitted by an Attorney. Just say’n …</p>
<p>I will hopefully answer some of your questions. I’m sorry if I forgot some of them, feel free to ask again. </p>
<p>Estate is in quotes because everything but this one account which is in my name and not probate limbo had beneficiary distinctions. As mentioned above most of her possessions were disbursed while she was alive and she sold her home years ago. There is some furniture in storage that we hoped she would use if she got to assisted living but that wasn’t meant to be. I will keep some of it and somehow plan for what to do with the rest. No one else wishes to claim any of it and I really don’t think the value is substantial. She never ever bought things on credit and paid all of her bills like clockwork so I don’t expect that any debts outside of the realm of medical costs exist. I did get the death certificates and distributed them to her banks as needed but the bankers told me that with a POD distinction those accounts must be collected by the beneficiaries. I didn’t think we needed to go through probate because all of the money was in someone’s possession from the moment she died (so to speak). Because automatic deposits are still going into some of her accounts I haven’t submitted all of the paperwork for the accounts to be divided but the accounts are frozen until I do. These accounts aren’t sizable and I am not getting rushed to take care of this. (Social security and pension have been notified of he death.) </p>
<p>I don’t have a letter of testamentary and at this point it seemed that the cost of getting one outweighed the benefits. I don’t know if just being named as such in the will actually makes me executrix in the eyes of the courts but since the one liquid account is in my name it seems that either way that is my role. With all of the accounts and bonds she had the value of the estate is in the low hundreds. I spoke to an attorney yesterday and he said he was going to send me an inventory to help determine if going into probate is needed but I strongly suspect it isn’t. I am coming to the conclusion that many of you have pointed me to and that is that I do need to hire an attorney for consultation. I expect I will do that within the next few weeks.</p>
<p>As for reasons for family asking for the money now. They aren’t lifesaving reasons which for me would supercede most responsibility. They are more like good financial timing reasons. The thing is, I know my mom would have absolutely wanted to help them so I am haunted by a sense of need to carryout her wishes but I am weighing that against the likelihood that bills will come in and need to be paid. While I have done a spread sheet it seems to me that with medical billing it is more a matter of the unknown than the known since there are doctors and tests given behind the scenes. The names that appear on the Medicare statements I know have been paid but I’m not positive about who isn’t listed and that is really my biggest worry. That and that all of the Medicare statements have not come in yet. Really, I have had dreams of asking her what she wants for me to do, unfortunately no answers in these. More than anything I know she and my dad would have hated for their estate to become divisive, and in some ways it already has.</p>
<p>This has been a very interesting thread. My understanding is that one strategy is to try and avoid probate entirely by having all bank accounts, CDs etc. set up as “payable on death to X”, so that those funds are sent directly by the bank to the named person upon the death of the account holder. Any real estate can be placed in a trust with a specified beneficiary(ies). This type of setup should make the process of settling the estate much simpler, right?</p>
<p>Cross-posted with OP there. Seems like the asset accounts do have the named beneficiaries already in her case.</p>
<p>Thinking of this thread this morning as my parents prepare to meet with a woman from an insurance company where they have a policy that’s been sitting there for a couple of years. The fact that this woman wants to come to the house and wants my siblings there tells me she wants to talk them into some new vehicle for this money. I’ve already talked to my parents and brother about just saying no. My brother is going to be the “executor” or my parents’ “estate” – and, yeah, those words are in quotes because there’s not much there – and I’m trying to make sure he gets that the more streamlined their assets are the better.</p>
<p>My experience is it sometimes takes over a year for the final medical billing to come in. Anything after a year I called up and asked about, mentioning the patient died a year ago, and they dropped the charges. It could be a state law that there is a time limit billing must be completed by.</p>
<p>I found the insurance company was the best clearing house for outstanding medical bills.</p>