Help please: planning first college trip to the US (visiting from the UK)

Parents Forum
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@valent2016 I was an extreme USC-sceptic when my D was accepted, really expecting to be way more sizzle than steak. Now, while I’m really aware of the limitations of a big Uni being a big school fac-brat myself, I’ve been surprised how much meat there is on the USC tailgate grill. USC has its issues, as well, of course. You can’t separate LA and it’s culture from USC and there are some obvious downsides (and a few upsides) to that but the alumni network is for sure as intense as they claim. There are a few unique things that make USC’s alumni more loyal/outspoken than many. Some of the key factors that contribute to it are:

  1. USC is really the only game in town - or even 1/2 a state. It is the only competitive, world-renowned private research university of its size in the LA metro area (or, really, south of Stanford.) All the other “name brand” big unis are publics (UCLA, UCI, UCSD, CalState Poly) They get good alumni support, but it’s not as well organized or, save UCLA, quite as intense. Most of the rest are smaller/LACs (Claremont McKennas, Occi, Pepperdine, Cal Arts, CIT, Whittier etc.) East Coast metros have more competition for “big” unis: NYC has Columbia, NYU in town, Penn, Princeton, Yale, Brown within 200 miles. (not to mention Fordham, Hofstra, etc. etc…) DC has Georgetown, George Washington, American, Hopkins, Penn etc. within 200 miles.

  2. USC work at it like CRAZY. They contact you all the time. Not (always) just to try to grub up some more money (although they start that right away) but also to let you know what’s going on, check in to see if you kid is happy. Check in to see if you’re happy. You get assigned a person whose job is really fundraising, but they are pretty lowkey about it. They take you out for a lunch or coffee, gently assess your stomach for legacy giving, then drop it and just keep you informed. But the contact is amazingly consistent. I’ve never seen anything like it. And it’s one reason their endowment is top 10 in the nation.

  3. One really good rivalry: USC/UCLA is just a great rivalry and is pretty much the only one in town. USC/Stanford can be fun but going out on the street anywhere before a UCLA/USC football or basketball game and you’re going to see tons of UCLA and USC swag on random people. I once went into a law office where one partner was UCLA the other was USC and the office was split down the middle with SC stuff on every wall on one side, and UCLA on every wall on the other. That was extreme, but pretty indicative.

  4. PAC 12 - just a great league that has tons of West Coast alums and therefore lots of people to talk smack with.

  5. It’s just huge. And old. 375,000 living alum is a lot of people. And they aren’t afraid to spend money. They are, for good or for bad, transforming University Park area. They stole a big brain researcher from UCLA by building them a facility. They got offered some money to put in a dance school and jumped at it and got it done. They seem to have snagged Lucas’ museum. They move very fast, it seems to me, for such a big school in such an urban area (the neighbors complain about the USCification sometimes too, btw.)

  6. The campus is really nice, esp. given its location. It’s not as “California pretty” as UCLA or Stanford or UCSD but certainly stacks up to Penn, Columbia, Harvard for a downtown urban campus. And the weather is great. And it’s SoCal. Kids come, the stay, they become brainwashed USC loyalists.

That said, USC is a BIG school and an URBAN school and an LA school (and an EXPENSIVE school). You have to want that. It’s not right for everyone, but I’ll admit the experience so far has been better than expected. It’s early days, tho.

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My take on USC is tarnished by the fact that both my parents went there. To me, growing up in the backyard of USC was uncool. Plus, I do not like the location at all. It’s stuck in freeway hell, and if you don’t have a car, forget about seeing the sights of So Cal. LA public transport leaves MUCH to be desired. It’s not like it’s walking distance to the beach or anything remotely interesting. Maybe the tarpits?

Having said that, the USC-UCLA rivalry was fun, even when I was a kid. I instinctively knew that UCLA was the enemy. Go Trojans! Still have Tusk by Fleeteood Mac stuck in my head.

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They extended the subway to Santa Monica @Lindagaf !

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@lindagaf @suzyQ7 and Uber/lyft + zip have changed the transpo landscape completely too. My D’s biggest complaint is she’s working too hard to enjoy LA as much as she’d like. (Also, downtown/arts district and even Koreatown is completely different than the “bad old days” when I used to hold my breath racing away from Al’s Bar after a misfit’s show, hoping no one would throw an empty bottle through the window of my covair!)

but you are right, USC is a freeway-demarcated deep urban campus, and anyone thinking they’ll leave their organic chem lecture and catch some waves before homework better hit UCSD or UCSB. And if you want to hike the hills without getting in a car and battling rush hour traffic, Cal poly-SLO, Cal Poly-Pomona, Davis or Santa Cruz are all better options.

btw, D’s other biggest complaint is the food. She’s pretty unimpressed with meal plan. Can’t wait for kitchen next year, although there’s plenty of good eats close to campus, for a non-red meat/pork eater the school food is apparently a bit redundant.

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OMG @CaliDad2020 , Al’s Bar! Totally derailing the thread, but I did the same when I went to a Dead Kennedy’s gig once. And @suzyQ7 , thanks for the update on the LA metro, forgot about that.

OP, your D’s choices couldn’t be more different. Bowdoin is probably the polar opposite of USC!

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Yes. She needs to visit.

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Probably too late for the OP but if you’re traveling between colleges in the US it’s helpful to use an app like Voyager. You input all of the locations and it creates an itinerary. I used it for my daughter’s east coast college tour and it worked great.

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I think LSE would be better for grad school. In addition, since OP’s daughter is quite undecided (business, pharmacy, finance…) the UK system wouldn’t work very well.
Bowdoin or USC would offer very different experiences but both uniquely American and unlike the UK experience. For a British kid in an IB program, I think Bowdoin would be best - what European students look for when they look for a US college. As for best friend at USC = ey, that’s what Spring break’s for! That being said, USC will still have more of a community feel and a lot more flexibility than UK universities.

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@valent2016 did D get into Tufts?

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@valent2016 - I just came across this thread and would be more than happy to share our experience with you. My son is a first year at Bowdoin. He went to one of the top day schools in London (and did the IB). Ironically, he has a cousin the same age who is a freshman at USC (also happy). My son is in heaven at Bowdoin. It is an incredibly friendly and community oriented school. The academics are strong. Bowdoin has an intellectual atmosphere without great pretense or competitiveness.

As far as name recognition goes in order to get a place in graduate school or a sough after job, I have always believed/experienced that any top school, LAC or University, will open the door. In short, “those that need to know, know”. A USC, or any major University with successful sports program, will have higher name recognition, but, will that really help when applying for the job/graduate school? Having gone to a LAC myself, I also believe many/all of the schools you have mentioned will have an active alumni base that will help out the College and its’ students. Paradoxically, my friends that went larger schools never felt the networking advantage. In fairness, I don’t know any USC grads my age and I can’t specifically comment on Bowdoin’s placement first hand (not yet at least…). My recommendation is to save the big name University for grad school and go for the full undergraduate experience at a LAC.

As your daughter chose the IB, I am guessing she will appreciative the Liberal Arts nature of a US education. I know from my son’s friends studying in the UK, that many are disappointed to be only taking one subject (though not all, some love the deep dive into their favorite subject!)

Anyway, we are thrilled with our son’s choice. He’s as happy as I have ever seen him. He’s thriving academically (IB prepares them well) as well as socially. Please let me know if I can help with any questions.

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@Red87 Great post, very helpful. How is your son dealing with the extreme Maine weather and the relatively isolated location of the school? My DD (who also attends a top London day school) has two offers from top LACs (we will be visiting them next week) and we are, frankly, struggling to see whether she will be happy spending 4 years in a cold rural environment (specifically Middlebury) compared to going to mid-sized East Coast urban universities. Thanks.

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@valent2016 , @londondad . We are a transatlantic family. I grew up in the backyard of USC, lived in London for 20 years, and have been living on the East Coast for the last 13 years. I can tell you that my British husband and I prefer the weather here to both CA weather and British weather. It’s nice to have seasons. In LA, you have two seasons. Cool-ish and Hot. In the UK, you have one season: Wet, with occasional bouts of sun or snow. The cold isn’t unbearable in Maine or Vermont. The dry cold of winter here is much better than the damp cold of England.

As far as Bowdoin being rural, it is not at all, IMO. It’s in a town, which is really more like a suburb of Portland. Portland is a really cool small city. And less than two hours away is Boston. Not rural. One thing you have to get used to here: the US is a BIG country. Huge. Our British friends were once amazed when we told them that Buffalo is a six hour drive from our home in NY, but it’s still in the same state. My daughter is at college in Maine, and it’s a five hour drive. It just isn’t that big a deal here to drive long distances. Back in the UK, I could have driven right out of country in just a couple of hours.

As for Middlebury, it is indeed more isolated than Bowdoin, but even so, it’s not that far to Montreal, the closest big city.

I agree with @Red87 . The people who need to know about these colleges, know. Name recognition will not be an issue.

Finally, look at the retention rates for these colleges. They are very high. Kids are happy at these schools. They wouldn’t stay if they weren’t. The reality of it is that the LACs provide many excellent activities and events. There is plenty for kids to do. My daughter finally gave up the idea of being near a big city when she realized that in fact, most kids spend their time on campus, even if they live near a city. After all, their friends, food, and beds are at their college. When we started asking kids about how easy it was to get into the nearest big city, we invariably heard this: “I did it a few times when I was a freshman, but now I hardly ever bother.”

Don’t be afraid of choosing the LAC. There is a very good reason why they continue to be popular: they will give you a more immersive educational experience and an opportunity to thrive in a community of individuals who want that experience too.

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Going to a somewhat “rural” college is not the same as deciding to live in and raise children in a rural part of the country. A college is its own ecosystem. A small, rural college is like its own version of a city. You walk every place. There are lots of activities and cultural offerings. I think looking at it through a middle-age adult’s lens distorts what the rural LAC college experience is all about.

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“distorts what the rural LAC experience is all about”

Seriously?

I like LACs, and arguably Midd is as good or better than her other options academically. However, she is a city girl who has always taken full advantage of London. I am afraid that no matter how great the social life is at Midd, she might be happier in DC or Boston where she and her friends can get off campus and still go to the theatre, ballet and museums. That is what we need to figure out in the next 3.5 weeks.

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^ It is something your daughter really needs to consider. I went to a very large rural university. The novelty wore off junior year, luckily study abroad was a great break that spring. Senior year was not great because after the cosmopolitan experience of spending 6 months in a beautiful European city, coming back to keggers and dive bars in the sticks was not appealing. I was totally ready to graduate and get out of that area. And there was plenty to do… But it was the same (and dull after a while) college stuff. Almost everyone at college is younger than you when you are a senior. That doesn’t happen in DC or Boston where the transition from student to young adult/professional is seemless. There are other students from other universities neaby that are hanging out at cool pub, bars, restaurants, cultural events etc.

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@londondad He doesn’t seem to mind the weather. The runnng family joke was, as he visited Bowdoin in July that come, March or April he would have felt duped into a NE school by his parents! I can happily report that this has not happened.

It may be that this winter was much milder than Winter 15/16. I also suspect Bowdoin is a bit warmer than you’d suspect given the proximity to the Atlantic. Midd was on his list as well so we made the trip. Midd (and Williams and Colby) felt more isolated to us than Bowdoin. That said, he is definitely living in the “Bowdoin Bubble” and very happy about it… We have flown to Boston twice and met him in town (which made the trip easy for us). On the last trip, we went back to Bowdoin with him so we could meet his friends and see the campus in the winter.

He wanted a community feel for his experience and he got it. I’m sure Midd will be very similar in it’s community orientation and its’ collaborative spirit.

I am sure @suzyQ7 is right about less transition from college life to adulthood but, for my kid, who spent hours at the Tate and the Old Vic and many of the other incredible offerings of London, he wa looking for a space to grow intellectually in a intimate environment surrounded with like minded young adults. So far, that’s what he is getting and I suspect many are getting at the top LACs. Not for everyone for sure but definitely what he preferred.

Good luck with the choice. I’m sure it is not easy but it sounds like its’ between two good choices and you can’t go wrong with whichever path you choose. As they say, that’s a “high quality problem”

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@Red87 @suzyQ7 Thanks. I think your views are spot-on. When I was at Uni in DC, many of us were getting tired of the campus scene by mid-Junior year so many of us just went into part-time jobs or internships to spend more time on Capital Hill or downtown. Many of our friends who know her well think that Georgetown would be a great fit for her intellect and personality (as well as generally a school that ticks a lot of boxes for many kids) but I want her to make her own decision.

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@londondad Oh, I’m sorry. I didn’t mean to offend. It could be nice to live in an area that revolves around the college. Although I can see the point that by senior year it gets kind of old. Also, one thing to keep in mind is that activities in the city are expensive. Most college students can’t afford to go to theater or ballet. I have no skin in this game. Just giving my two cents.

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Ha, I went to a truly rural undergrad college and small, to boot. The word “rural” shouldn’t even come up for Bowdoin. What Brunswick is, is a small city, fewer major cultural experiences, no major retailers, but plenty of beautiful natural surroundings, as I hope OP saw. (Some of us adore Maine.) Yes, Portland. But what happens is, kids who don’t “need” the very big cultural experience of a NYC, Boston or DC, are happily focused on-campus. It’s not like, after class or a trip to the library, these places are deserted, just you and the cows mooing.

Middlebury, otoh, is that much further from substantial “action.” Lots and lots of good things to say about the school. But it’s what we’d call remote. Much different to get to, from London. For that matter, from Boston, too. No one or two hour trip for the Big City “fix.”

What OP probably saw is that Bowdoin (and to some degree, Wes,) are accessible via the major northeast highway, Route 95. Bowdoin is, as said, 2 or so hours from Boston. Busses run. Wes is less, from NYC. That presents opportunities for a getaway or a meet with parents, during breaks.

As for southern CA, I’m a true Yankee, it’s so “me” in so many ways. But I loved living in southern CA (many years, Go Bruins!) (The difference is, @Lindagaf, I always lived within a few miles of the beach.) (Santa Monica (beach town) is said to be home to one of the largest British ex-pat communities outside the old empire.) The worst weather is really only a few weeks of August into Sept, the rest is moderate.

In general, though, USC is a wee bit more inland (what, 10 miles? In S. CA terms that’s nothing.) But a little more in a smoggier zone. (Someone may want to comment on that.) Yes, there is culture in S. CA, but as opposed to Boston or, in particular, NYC, where you cannot escape it, you have to go looking for it, figure out what’s where, etc. And in general, unlike Bos or NYC, more a car culture. Downtown isn’t really a walking city.

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@brantly No problem. Just to pick up on one point about the theatre, when we were at Georgetown one of the drama teachers mentioned that GU has some relationships with the Arena Stage and other local theatres to provide cheap tix to GU students. We did not get a chance to follow-up with her to learn whether these tickets were available very often.