<p>Duke with A.B. scholarship, this is really hard to turn down.</p>
<p>Wow, lots of Duke supporters. Here’s to give you a more balanced view.</p>
<p>If your family can afford it, I would say take Stanford. Duke is awesome, of course, but Stanford is in a whole different league.</p>
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<p>Of course he can, but he can still intern at SV if he goes to, say, UCLA. The point is that Stanford has vast connections in SV–ties to over 3,000 companies, tons of companies recruit on campus constantly, etc. Mark Zuckerberg came and guest taught a CS class recently. So many big names come to campus too–Steve Ballmer, Bill Gates, Larry Page, Jerry Yang, etc. And there are opportunities at Stanford that you just can’t get at Duke, for example:</p>
<p>[STVP</a> : Teaching : Mayfield Fellows Program (MFP)](<a href=“http://stvp.stanford.edu/teaching/mfp/]STVP”>Stanford Technology Ventures Program : Winter 2020: MFP Info Sessions + Application Open)</p>
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<p>The OP can avoid the physical fraternities if they’re off campus, but he won’t be able to avoid the kinds of people who are party-hardy frat boys, etc. Apparently a third of the students at Duke are in Greek organizations, which means that social life at Duke does in part hinge on the Greek scene. Stanford, on the other hand, has only 13%. (I am not arguing against Greek organizations, as I am in a fraternity, but if the OP doesn’t like the Greek scene, it’s more difficult to avoid if more students are in it, even if the Greek houses are off campus.)</p>
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<p>He can still study abroad in Oxford–Stanford has a program for it.</p>
<p>[Bing</a> Overseas Studies at Stanford University](<a href=“http://bosp.stanford.edu/oxford/index.html]Bing”>http://bosp.stanford.edu/oxford/index.html)</p>
<p>Not all paid for, but that’s only because he’s not getting financial aid. But the money he’d be paying Stanford would be going toward his travel, etc. for Oxford.</p>
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<p>Stanford is pretty generous with the money it gives. In fact, Stanford allocates more money to undergraduate research than any other university: $4-5 million each year. It’s not hard to get a grant, and there are all kinds: small grants, major grants, arts grants, conference grants, etc.</p>
<p>[Student</a> Research Grants Descriptions and Deadlines | Undergraduate Academic Life](<a href=“http://www.stanford.edu/dept/undergrad/cgi-bin/drupal_ual/OO_research_opps_Grants.html]Student”>http://www.stanford.edu/dept/undergrad/cgi-bin/drupal_ual/OO_research_opps_Grants.html)</p>
<p>It’s also easy to get an internship on campus through a department, and the rate this year is $5,600. So it’s not “technically” guaranteed, but anyone who wants an internship can just apply to the department(s) research internships, and they’ll have no problem getting one. (I got an awesome internship halfway through freshman year, and I hadn’t done anything at Stanford yet to get it–it was only the first month of second quarter.)</p>
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<p>Last year, Stanford claimed 3 Rhodes scholars and 4 Marshall. Recently, Stanford claimed the most Truman scholars (4, which is rare for the Truman). Of course, this isn’t a measure of the quality of education. Just a fun fact.</p>
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Stanford won 2 Marshalls last year, not 4. Duke had 3, the most in the country along with Yale. Just a minor correction.:)</p>
<p>If you are an A.B. Scholar at Duke, you will either be doing a prestigious fellowship (Rhodes, Marshall, Churchill, Truman), working for a top consulting firm (Bain, BCG, McKinsey), working in front office for a top investment bank (Goldman Sachs, Morgan Stanley, JP Morgan), enrolled in a top postgraduate program in your field of study (HYPSM), working for a top engineering firm (Google, Microsoft, Medtronic), doing a service program of your choice (TFA, Americorps, Peacecorps) or going to your pick of top law schools (usually HYS) or top medical schools (usually Harvard, Penn, Duke, WashU, Hopkins or UCSF). This is 100% guaranteed.</p>
<p>Congratulations, you basically won the equivalent of the lottery for undergraduate admissions. A regular Stanford education can’t possibly compare with the personalized opportunities that the A.B. Duke offers.</p>
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<p>You’re right–there’s an article in the Daily now mentioning 4, but I think it was a typo and meant to say “Truman,” not Marshall.</p>
<p>All the opportunities you list for an A.B. Scholar at Duke apply to Stanford too. It’s not 100% guaranteed, but I don’t think it’s 100% guaranteed at Duke either–rather, the students who are A.B. Scholars tend to do those things, but Duke has no say in whether, say, Goldman Sachs hires someone. So it’s not exactly 100% guaranteed, but there’s a pretty good chance.</p>
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<p>What “personalized opportunities” does an A.B. Scholar offer students that Stanford doesn’t also offer?</p>
<p>I have a feeling that the A.B. program, like other programs across the country, is to lure students away from HYPSM (among other top privates). That’s why the Regents’ was created at the UCs, the honors colleges at public schools, etc. To make the school more competitive with those who tend to take cross-admits away. So I have a feeling–and this is just a hunch–that the A.B. Scholar program is trying to replicate a lot of the opportunities that someone would have at, say, Stanford or Harvard, in the hopes of luring them away.</p>
<p>Stanford (and its peers) doesn’t do a program like A.B. because it stratifies the student body, and more importantly, because all students have those opportunities available to them anyway (so there’s no point in creating a program that picks out a “special” group of students and affording them “special” opportunities).</p>
<p>Even if the A.B. program is superior to the “regular Stanford education” (which I seriously doubt), it doesn’t matter for the OP: clearly if he’s capable of becoming an A.B. Scholar, he will take that capability to Stanford, too, and do just as well.</p>
<p>Also, it’s not just a “regular Stanford education” he’s looking for–he’s interested in CS, and I’m certain that no matter how awesome the A.B. Scholar program is, it cannot match the opportunities that Stanford affords students in Silicon Valley. No school can match Stanford in that respect. And he’s also interested in biology, where Stanford also has the edge over Duke.</p>
<p>I agree with phastasmagoric. Stanford has all of the enumerated opportunities (and more) available for all students who want to pursue them, and has no need of “merit” scholarships to attract that caliber of student. Stanford faculty members also reach out directly to incoming freshmen–last year after I attended a reception for early admits, professors from two different departments contacted me via email to say they had heard about my interests from another faculty member at the reception, and wanted to let me know about the research opportunities they had going on. I’m sure this has happened with other students as well.</p>
<p>So again, if the money isn’t the deciding factor, I would certainly come to Stanford. (If you were talking about the Morehead-Cain scholarship at UNC, that would be an entirely different analysis, but that’s not what’s under discussion here.)</p>
<p>^ same! Two professors contacted me via email, one of them a MacArthur Fellow and one of them an AAAI fellow (and both the authors of widely-used textbooks). Very awesome, definitely helped me to decide that Stanford was the best for me :)</p>
<p>Come to Stanford. It’s much, much better for your interests. Plus, unless you’re the Duke-type, you’ll hate it there. </p>
<p>Good luck!</p>
<p>Oh boy, this decision is going to be a hard one to make. Seems like opinions are very divided here. I agree with a lot of posters that yes, Stanford is ideal for the things I’m interested in pursuing. At the same time, will I be able to live with myself knowing that I passed up $200,000 + from Duke? Also, does anyone here know whether or not the advantages that A.B. Duke scholars claim to have are actually as good as they sound? </p>
<p>I guess at this point, I’m really interested in knowing whether or not an undergraduate experience at Stanford is really worth $50,000 a year. Is it? </p>
<p>Thank you to everyone who replied, though! The more data I have, the more confident I will feel in making this decision!</p>
<p>misterbeck, the question of value is inherently subjective and situationally-dependent for each person, so you can’t really delegate this question to anyone but yourself. If you have the means to pay the costs, you will have to determine what you personally want most out of your undergraduate experience in light of your individual goals and preferences. Obviously, all of the full-pay students at Stanford decided that the cost was worth it, but each case is entirely specific to the individual. You will be getting lots of replies on here to the effect that “No school is worth $50K”, and certainly some full-pay students will decide to take a less-expensive option. But this comes down to your own situation and opinions of relative value; other people’s opinions and preferences really don’t constitute “data” that are very useful in your own determination, unless somehow their situations precisely mirrored yours in all relevant respects.</p>
<p>To zenkoan:</p>
<p>I do realize that the value of a Stanford education/value a Duke education is quite subjective. Also, I understand that an undergraduate experience is not defined so much by the school as by what you do at the school/people you meet. So I suppose I’m asking more for people to share stories of the opportunities they had at Stanford/Duke, because I want a more thorough picture of what either school can offer. There’s a lot that goes on at college that isn’t detailed in the college websites. THAT is the “data” of which I speak. But yeah, I phrased my question poorly. I understand the decision should–and it will–be based on what is best for me. Thanks a lot for underscoring that fact. :)</p>
<p>I think that if you tried to sign Duke but couldn’t do it, then your gut instinct is telling you something. Go to Stanford! Maybe it would be better to pay through the nose and not have any regrets than go through college with no financial burdens, but always wonder what stanford would have been like. Education is the best possible investment.</p>
<p>If you can’t afford Stanford, then don’t go there. Duke is great too so don’t put yourself through too much stress just to come here. Of course, if there is a way for you to afford it, and you aren’t going to go into too much debt (anything more than 30K is far too high, imo), then don’t think twice about it. Stanford is a much better match for your interests.</p>
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Umm, Duke also has partnership with many top firms such as Microsoft, Yahoo, Cisco. Also, just because Stanford has a great CS program doesn’t mean that the OP will automatically get a internship in the SV. There will be many Stanford students applying for internships in SV while there will be less Duke students. Companies don’t always accept students from one school, instead they often distribute the acceptance (just like how many business firms on Wall Street doesn’t accept only NYU Stern students, but they also include many USC, and UCB Haas students). Thus, the OP might have a better chance at Duke, though it also depends on the application pool from all around the country. </p>
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The OP can avoid the physical fraternities if they’re off campus, but he won’t be able to avoid the kinds of people who are party-hardy frat boys, etc. Apparently a third of the students at Duke are in Greek organizations, which means that social life at Duke does in part hinge on the Greek scene.
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I highly doubt frat boys party while walking to class, while in class, while after class, while sitting on the lawn. Oh wait, they don’t. The problem is, you are associating the stereotypical portrail of Duke by the media with the actual Duke Greek life. You realize that Duke is bigger on basketball than on Greek life? Also, just because there are a good percentage of the student population are in greek life DOESN’T mean that the social scene at Duke is dominated by greeks. 25% of stanford is comprised of Asians, does that mean the social scene at Stanford is comprised of Asian studying like crazy and little partying? Does it mean that Indian dances are everywhere? No. In fact many asians are not stereotypical asians just like how Duke students who participate in greek life don’t party all day and night. </p>
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If you look at my previous post closely, you will realize that I addressed this. </p>
<h1>1. The OP is NOT GUARANTEED to go to Oxford. Only 47 out of the hundred that apply will be able to. AB Duke guarantees that.</h1>
<h1>2. The OP will have to pay thousands more to got to Oxford: airfare, housing, food, transportation are not covered by the tuition money, not to mention the large amount of money wasted during exchange rate.</h1>
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You got an internship, but the AB Duke is more toward a research grant. Also, the $5,600 is very deceptive. </p>
<h1>1. You didn’t mention that that’s the MAXIMUM you can get, something very difficult to get.</h1>
<h1>2. Also, almost all Major Grants are awarded to students beginning an honors thesis between their junior and senior years. Thus the OP has to wait a long time and may still not be guaranteed. OR the applicant is seeking to become a member of a scholarly mentoring community including special events, preparing for a capstone project or honors, fellowships and graduate school advising. These are very specific and thus difficult to get.</h1>
<h1>3. The OP is unlikely to get the Angel Grant because it is for only public creative work such as a visual exhibit, film, stage production, or concert.</h1>
<h1>4. This leaves the small grant, only 1,500, A LOT less than the 5,000.</h1>
<p>Also, I should mention that going to a school doesn’t mean one has a better chance of getting a Rhode Scholar. Many schools that are often rarely known and lesser funded than Stanford have gotten numerous Rhode Scholars. In the same sense, UPenn didn’t have a scholar last year. Is there education bad? No.</p>
<p>Of course, there is the question that which school does the OP really want? From my perspective, the OP really wants to go to Stanford and I say that he should if he is really wanting to (I get this because if he isn’t, he would have committed, it seems that he is looking for a good reason).</p>
<p>misterbeck, what is your plan for paying the cost of Stanford, if you go there rather than to Duke? If you had to cover the cost entirely by yourself, which would you choose? You said that you are “middle class.” That covers a wide range of economic conditions. If you look at the cost of Stanford, and then compare it with your family’s after-tax income, how many months or years will your parents have to work just to cover your extra costs (ignoring their own housing, cars, food, heating, utilities, clothing, etc)? How secure is their employment? Do they have sufficient funds for retirement set aside?</p>
<p>Agreed with Enigma.</p>
<p>Stanford is definitely worth $200k–if you can pay for it. If it would be nearly impossible to pay it or at least very difficult to pay for it, then I’d say it’s not worth it when you have a better offer from Duke on the table. But if you can pay for it okay, a Stanford undergraduate education is worth $200k.</p>
<p>In this case, though, it’s not just the education that’s worth it. If you’re interested in CS, the location of Stanford is monumentally important. We’re not kidding when we say that literally hundreds of recruiters come to campus, but so much more than that, you’re afforded unparalleled opportunities in Silicon Valley. Fellows programs, talk series, conferences like [this[/url</a>], internships, etc. (Freshman year, I got an internship through a department, which paid for it, but it was actually at a prestigious research center in SV.) The CS curriculum is awesome and very trend-setting (seriously, other CS departments often model their curricula off Stanford’s), there’s a huge variety of CS courses offered, the professors are all amazing, there’s [url=<a href=“http://curis.stanford.edu%5DCURIS%5B/url”>http://curis.stanford.edu]CURIS[/url</a>] (the research program for CS undergrads), the Gates CS building is nice and also huge… the list goes on. There are also a lot more CS majors at Stanford–nearly 10% of the student body is a declared CS major. Many of your CS classes will be videotaped and put online, so if you can’t make lecture or don’t feel like it, you can just watch online and go to office hours if you have questions. 
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<p>I don’t know about biology (I’m in CS and am starting at a CS PhD program in the fall, so that’s why I know more about it), but it’s ranked #1 here:</p>
<p>[url=<a href=“http://grad-schools.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-graduate-schools/top-science-schools/biological-sciences-rankings]Best”>http://grad-schools.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-graduate-schools/top-science-schools/biological-sciences-rankings]Best</a> Biological Science Programs | Top Science Schools | US News Best Graduate Schools](<a href=“http://www.stanforddaily.com/2011/04/11/bases-hosts-entrepreneurship-conference-for-start-ups]this[/url”>BASES hosts entrepreneurship conference for start-ups)</p>
<p>Anyway, are you going to visit both campuses?</p>
<p>What do your parents say? Are they okay paying for Stanford?</p>
<p>(for what it’s worth, I’m pretty certain that the reason you got so many Duke supporters responding first is that they search the forums for “Duke” to find any thread that it’s mentioned in, and they got to the thread before Stanford-affiliated posters could ;))</p>
<p>I agree that Stanford is worth $200K, in itself. I don’t think the difference between Stanford and Duke is worth $200K, though.</p>
<p>As a parent who perhaps “could afford it”, $200K over four years may not be a “deciding factor” but even the pretty well off could do a lot without that expense. And it will be well over $200k by the time you graduate. My D turned down a lot of merit money to go to Duke “because we could afford it”, but only now, as a junior, can she start to appreciate what we could be doing with that money in the future. </p>
<p>No regrets about the choice, but the year she graduated (as opposed to the year she applied) was a REALLY scary year economically. Hope to not go THERE again.</p>
<p>Hi everyone…OP here again. </p>
<p>gunit: I do want to go to Stanford–but not if I’m going to regret giving up the advantages of being an A.B. scholar. The thing is, my parents would absolutely LOVE for me to go to Duke. But they wouldn’t have let me apply to Stanford unless they were prepared to pay for at least some of it. Receiving the A.B. Duke scholarship was a big surprise that radically changed their minds (both they and I thought I’d be going to Stanford once I received my acceptance online). </p>
<p>QuantMech: I’m starting to agree with you. My parents have stable jobs, and while they may be able to pay for my college tuition now, there’s no guarantee that they will be able to continue doing that in the future. I think I would feel very guilty if I went to Stanford and could not live up to my/their expectations. </p>
<p>phantasmagoric: I’ve seen Duke (went there to interview) and I thought the campus was really lovely. The people were a mixture–to be expected at any school I think–of individuals I liked and disliked. I haven’t seen Stanford yet, but I’ve been there when I was younger. Also, I have several relatives who are Stanford alum. In all honesty, I think I would fit in much better at Stanford, even though I would grow more as an individual at Duke, which is far from home. </p>
<p>Overall, I think I’m leaning towards Duke right now. My biggest regret is that I might miss out on all the cool CS classes/developments going on at Stanford. And of course, having dreamed of going to Stanford for such a long time, it’s hard to suddenly picture myself as a Duke kid.</p>
<p>gunit5,</p>
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<p>I don’t doubt it. Stanford has a strong relationship with all those companies (they have headquarters right nearby), but it also has relationships with over 3,000 other companies.</p>
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<p>Your efforts here are valiant, but this doesn’t make much sense. When it comes to Stanford, they aren’t distributing anything–they tend to want as many Stanford CS students as they can get. If you’ve been to one of the CS recruitment fairs, you’d see this. I don’t know of anyone who didn’t get an internship if they wanted one.</p>
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<p>I didn’t say that. I’m saying that the Duke culture is much more Greek than Stanford’s is. Duke has nearly 3x the proportion of students going Greek. I don’t think it’s dominated by Greeks at Duke, but rather, if the OP really doesn’t like the Greek scene, Stanford is better since its Greek scene is way smaller.</p>
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<p>Actually it’s 18% (I’m not sure what your point here is though)</p>
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<p>But why are you pointing this out? If going to Oxford were really important for the OP, then I could see why this would matter. But I don’t see him having mentioned anything about wanting to study abroad in Oxford.</p>
<p>(I personally would hate to study abroad in Oxford–too much writing + there are so many more interesting places to go)</p>
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<p>A few things: for one, it’s not difficult to get the maximum. But that doesn’t even matter, because the $5,600 figure I mentioned is for the on-campus internships. These on-campus internships are pretty easy to get–tons of students get them, and the rate this year is $5,600. They raise the rate every few years, and all three summers here, I’ve had an internship (through a department) with $5200-5600 in pay. In fact, there are so many doing on-campus $5,600 internships that Stanford has something called Summer Research College, which is basically two adjoining dorms on campus filled with students (~220 in SRC, countless more living outside SRC) doing on-campus research internships. </p>
<p>But outside of internships, you can apply for an independent research grant, the maximum being $5,600 this year. That’s to do an open-ended project. These aren’t as easy to get as the internships (you have to have a proposal, faculty sponsor, etc.), but many get them.</p>
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<p>Uh, of course, I just thought I’d mention it. He will likely never want to go for the special Angel Grant, but if he’s interested in that stuff, it’s there.</p>
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<p>Again, good effort, but you misunderstand that the most common grant on campus is $5,600 (either through internship or through a UAR grant).</p>
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<p>Of course–that’s why I said that the Rhodes has nothing to do with the quality of education.</p>
<p>misterbeck,</p>
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<p>I just wanted to add, if your finances change, Stanford will adjust your financial aid. Even if they change half way through the quarter.</p>
<p>I had a friend whose father lost his job in late 2008 because of the economy. She was freaking out, but she just walked into the financial aid office, met with someone, had a few documents faxed, and they granted her a bunch more financial aid (she was paying nearly full-freight before).</p>