<p>IMO: 1) Lehigh 2) Bucknell 3) Syracuse.</p>
<p>Bucknell is a good school with a pretty campus (and yes, the prison is at the other end of town) but itās small and truly in the middle of nowhere. Even to get around in town, a car would be close to a necessity. That drive, either north or south, in the winter is not a fun one.</p>
<p>Would it be possible to have your son sit in on some classes? This was very helpful to my D when it came to decision time.
Based upon what you have said about your sonās preferences I would go with Bucknell. I think it is the strongest academically (by a hair) and has a homier feel to it than Lehigh.</p>
<p>Friends son is at Bucknell with Army ROTC. Very happy there.</p>
<p>Talk to DougBetsy about ROTC issues and when one has to commit. I think her son had ROTC offers in the fall but didnāt have to decide this early.</p>
<p>S2 briefly considered Syracuse as a likely, but decided he wanted a stronger student body. Lehigh and Bucknell were never on our radar. Donāt discount the TIME it takes to travel to rural schools. The money is less of an issue than itās hours to anywhere.</p>
<p>ROTC clearly gives 30 days to pick the school. I think the deadline will be between dec 15-20th.</p>
<p>Iāve spent winters at Bucknell and Winters in Syracuse. Iād take Bucknell on that score. </p>
<p>NJ to Lehigh is easy. Not sure where in NJ you are, but the trips to Bucknell and Syracuse by car are similar. </p>
<p>As a Bucknell alum, Iād be surprised if thereās any less drinking at Bucknell than Lehigh.</p>
<p>Lewisburg is a small town and very walkable. Lots of activities are clustered on campus. I didnāt have a car til my senior year (back in the less indulged dark ages). Someone always had a car when we needed to go somewhere. And, a friendās Dad flew me to my hometown (in his private plane) one Thanksgiving. </p>
<p>The prison is a place on the horizon. I visited once ā one of my more liberal moments ā to have milk and cookies with the better behaved prisoners. I still remember that I chatted with the guy who had set the largest industrial fire in the state of Connecticut. Thanks to Bucknell I got to see the inside of a maximum security federal prison on a Friday night. </p>
<p>The Bucknell alumni network is truly dedicated. And, I also recall classmates who were ROTC who served long after their initial commitment, so Bucknell must have served them well. Iāve seen some Lehigh dedication, but my perspective may not be broad enough. DHās sister (Army ROTC at Lehigh) served her initial commitment and doesnāt seem to have much of a bond with the school. </p>
<p>DH and my immediate families had 3 ROTC ā one (Army) at Lehigh and two (Navy) at Notre Dame. </p>
<p>Your son should pick the school that he loves, and spend his time wisely. The Army will later pay for his masters and doctorate as his career progresses, in many cases as a full time student. We certainly knew active duty officers going to Stanford, Harvard, and Penn for their programs. (We spent DHās postgrad time at the Naval Postgraduate School in Monterey CA). </p>
<p>I hope this helps. Feel free to PM me.</p>
<p>On the academics at Syracuse, I would have to concur that they are a step down for someone who considers Lehigh/Bucknell matches. </p>
<p>Anectdotally this was confirmed to me by a friend of mine who went there and became a nearly straight A student (she was nowhere close to this in HS). All of her friends considered her the āsmarty pantsā of their group. It was pretty weird because this girl is not very intellectual. She seems very organized and reads a lot (albeit not of the literary snob variety) but she is just not the type Iād want to be the smartest person in the class. Furthermore they accept AP credit for really low scores, which was another red flag to me. A 4/5 on an AP exam definitely doesnāt mean you would have gotten an A in the college level class, and a 3 honestly means you didnāt understand the material at all. To accept 3s or lower means theyāre not very discerning academically in my opinion. </p>
<p>I have heard things about Lehigh being super conservative and preppy. I know I wouldnāt be comfortable with the environment there and might prefer Syracuseās āvibeā (overall student body was very laid back when I visited Syracuseā¦I was expecting rich and preppy but I just didnāt see it on my visit). And, I might prefer the city of Syracuse, though it doesnāt get a lot of accolades, to Bucknellās sufficatingly rural location.</p>
<p>OP, is there any opinion/evidence as to which college has the strongest AROTC unit?
If so, is that a factor in the decision of which school to choose?</p>
<p>Actually Lewisburg has the second largest prison complex in the US. It is not just one little jail. </p>
<p>For purely academic reasons, Iād choose Bucknell, particularly if you want to study political science or a related field. But I suggested that my son not apply to Bucknell because I thought there would be limited learning opportunities outside of the classroom, such as internships, etc.</p>
<p>Keep in mind that Syracuse is the snowfall capital of the northeast. If you love winter sports, fine, but otherwise it could be a very long dark winter that never seems to end.</p>
<p>Bethlehem has many great areas, and many spectacular things happening. It still has a few areas that need work, but they are not nearly as bad as most older cities.</p>
<p>again, thanks everybody for your thoughtful replies.</p>
<p>As for the internship, yes my son thought about it. However, given that his goal is to load up on all sorts of hard core military training sessions during the first two summer breaks (air borne school, etc), and in the summer before the fall of the senior year, all ROTC cadets must attend mandatory summer training camp, there does not seem much room for summer internship. </p>
<p>So the question is about internship possibilities during the semester, and I donāt think this is such a popular option anyway. S1 is a college sophomore, and he has had a paid internship during past two summers but he does not do any such thing during a school year. </p>
<p>That renders the issue of a location that does not lend itself well to off campus internship, jobs and whatnot a moot issue. Am I missing something? If so, please educate me on this. </p>
<p>(yes, Bucknell is in the middle of nowhere, we visited the campus. It does not seem to bother S much, and truthfully, itās not like Syracuse and Lehigh are NYC, London, or Paris anyway).</p>
<p>My preferences:</p>
<p>1)Bucknell 2)Lehigh 3)Syracuse</p>
<p>Considerations: Greek or not, academics, and size. I think Lehigh is too Greek for your son. It sounds like Syracuse isnāt academically challenging enough. And I like the smaller size at Bucknell.</p>
<p>OK, I guess Iām in the distinct minority with the Syracuse suggestionā¦</p>
<p>One last military reason to consider Syracuse. 40% of your WPS when you branch is based upon your college GPA. Doesnāt matter if it is from Harvard or Bi-directional State U. 4.0 = 4.0. See this link</p>
<p><a href=āhttps://docs.google.com/document/pub?id=1yFb72SStJvY0AkTDl8NeW8N37UUvHzhe2HJqUZmhWbo[/url]ā>OML Slide;
<p>Note that STEM majors are now getting a .5 help (finally figured out that physics is more difficult than metaphysics, I guess). </p>
<p>If he is interested in certain highly competitive Army Branches, getting that 40% can be the difference between getting that prized assignment and ending up in something not so related to your career intent.</p>
<p>Ultimately, though he has to be happy in the environment where he is at school. If at all possible, revisit campuses. A lot changes for a 17-year-old in a year.</p>
<p>Best wishes.</p>
<p>Goaliedad, thatās a good point, your snark about metaphysics aside :p. </p>
<p>I think it really depends on what academic atmosphere you thrive best in, though. Some people like being challengedā¦it pushes them to do better. At a less academically challenging school this person may actually get worse grades. </p>
<p>And some people would rather be the big fish in the small pond. </p>
<p>So, depends on which one OPās son is.</p>
<p>again, thanks for all the thoughtful replies.</p>
<p>S would rather be in an academically exciting environment. Actually, he gets better grades in AP courses than regular courses: his explanation - he focuses better when it is challenging. </p>
<p>The GPA being so important for the branch selection is a very legitimate issue. So much so that a couple of schools that are sort of academic peers with Lehigh and Bucknell were dropped from his list because of their fame (infamy) of grade deflation. </p>
<p>I believe the ideal environment for him is where he is challenged by his classmates but the grading policy does not artificially penalize the students compared with its academic peer schools. </p>
<p>No dissing for Syracuse, but his SAT score is 400+ points over the Syracuse average of incoming freshmen (his ultra safety school), and I donāt think he is going to be adequately challenged.</p>
<p>hyeonjlee: I donāt know if this has been said already, but it should be a comfort that it does not look like your son can make a terrible choice regardless of which of the three schools he selects. I would caution you not to place too much stock in average or median or whatever SAT scores. My D is at a school that many would consider beneath her scores but she has found plenty of challenge, and plenty of very talented classmates. Also some not-so-talented, of course, but if your son wants academic challenge I would be surprised if he couldnāt find it. Does Syracuse have any kind of honors college?</p>
<p>^Yes, there definitely is. It actually is very selective from what Iāve seen.</p>
<p>The problem with honors colleges is that they are an ADDITIONAL experience but they do not define your experience at a university. The VAST majority of classes that you will be taking in your major are non-honorsā¦while honors colleges are a great way to meet friends and find some engaging professors/activities, theyāre not a substitute for a school in which all of your classes will be āhonorsā classes.</p>
<p>I find honors colleges to be awfully overratedā¦</p>
<p>That said, I think people (including myself) have been somewhat harsh on SU when itās not really warranted. If for some reason OPās son canāt go to Bucknell or Lehigh or doesnāt consider either school a fit, itās not as if SU is full of deadbeats. Itās a rather large university and Iām sure thereās a rich intellectual life to be found there if you seek it out. Assuming OP would be at the top of a class, that provides a lot more opportunities to be close with professors and seek out special research, internships, or general connections. Thatās not to say OP would necessarily be thereā¦lots of people are late bloomers or poor test takers and a lower overall SAT range doesnāt necessarily mean the students there are ādumberā in the same way it doesnāt mean everyone who goes to Harvard is a prestige-obsessed teacherās pet. Haha.</p>
<p>ok, enoughā¦My daughterās SAT and ACT scores were at least 400 points over Syracuseās average (no idea what the actual average is these days)ā¦and she is a junior at Newhouse; yes, there are some courses that she has found easyā¦and then there are some courses that have been, honestly, IMPOSSIBLE and she definitely has struggledā¦</p>
<p>I thought the original discussion was regarding public affairs and international relations; the toughest courses and the smartest kids she has met to SU are in the following schools (in no particular order)</p>
<p>Newhouse (obviously given selectivity)
Architecture (never sees them itās so rigorous)
Maxwell School of Public affairs
Whitman (to a lesser degree though)</p>
<p>In addition, she has commented that even though not necessarily āacademicā, the kids in VPA who are majoring in the arts are the hardest working students she has ever metā¦</p>
<p>If the OP is concerned with āprestigeā this discussion is mootā¦this is not a āsticker on the car schoolā for an academic snobā¦</p>
<p>There are 12,000 (approx) undergrads at SUā¦you can find the academically inclinedā¦just like at ANY school for the most partā¦</p>
<p>and incidently, SU is DEFINITELY more diverse than the other schools being consideredā¦</p>
<p>Iām sorry for the rant; but I haventā slept muchā¦</p>
<p>rant overā¦</p>
<p>Rodney,</p>
<p>I donāt think we on this thread had any intention to dis Syracuse. No, my priority was NOT the prestige. In fact, right outside of the college confidential universe, nobody knows what Bucknell or Lehigh is. There is no bragging right I will ever get because S2 is going to either Bucknell or Lehigh. S1 is attending U Chicago, and most ordinary people in Chicago thinks itās state school or a municipal college. Hell, most ordinary people think U Penn is a state school.</p>
<p>Sorry if we offended you with all this.</p>
<p>I agree with rodney. SU is a school with much to offer. The Maxwell School would be a good fit for the OP. I know students who have attended Bucknell and found it very confining and homogeneous. Being fairly large and diverse, SU gives you more options. I have seen job outcomes for students who have graduated from the professional schools, even during these last 2 recession years, and they have been quite impressive. Donāt rule out the school based on SAT averages which donāt tell the whole story.</p>