This is the thread I was referencing - which is really a must read for anyone considering studying music in college, regardless of major: http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/music-major/1948726-double-degree-dilemma-essay-written-by-david-lane-p1.html
I’m a little confused. Does your student want to major in music performance (you have the Frost School at Miami, and Sheppard at Rice, Blair, NEC, which are conservatory type programs requiring auditions ) or does she want to get a Bachelor of Arts in Music which is very different from a Bachelors in Music performance?
OR…does she want to be able to continue playing her viola in college and perhaps take lessons? Or maybe do a Music minor (this world not be in performance).
What exactly are her music aspirations for college?
If she is applying as a music performance major she will need to audition just like everyone else. At most places, ED is not an option for music performance majors at all…because the schools need to hear all of the viola players audition to make their admission decisions. The suggestions to apply ED just won’t work if she is a music conservatory student who must audition.
Some music programs have an early audition date, either in November or the first weekend of December, and those music performance majors auditioning at those times will get an earlier admission decision. So far as I know, none of the schools on your list have this option.
I think your list is very top heavy. Regardless of her eventual stats which you don’t even have now…many of these schools are reaches for all applicants because they accept such a small %age of those who apply.
Regarding the east coast and beaches in the summertime. Be prepared to pay top dollar for hotels near those beaches. It’s prime season. Personally, I avoid 95 like the plague during the summer months because of the summer vacation traffic.
I have one kid who was a music performance major including his masters program. My second kid thought she would minor in music, but absolutely wanted to play her instrument in a college orchestra…which she did. She didn’t even minor in music because her schedule was jam packed.
If your kid wants to double major with music and anything else, make sure you choose colleges that are supportive of this plan. It can be very difficult to double major with music as there are so many one credit courses that meet five days a week (all ensembles seemed that way).
If your kid plans to attend a conservatory like Sheppard and major in something else also at Rice, it’s likely it will take 5 years. Oberlin, for example, is open to music conservatory students getting double degrees from the college. But it takes five years to do it all.
I second reading the articles linked in post 20. This is the second iteration of those articles and they are excellent. I loved the first ones but sadly those are no longer available.
Before you visit one more college, I think you need to really think about what your daughter is looking for in terms of her music. If it’s an auditioned spot in a program…that is very different than a BA in music.
Indiana has a fine music program. It is one of the largest in the country. I don’t think it’s number 1…in terms of music. But it’s a fine program.
There are plenty of places this kid could look. What about Oberlin? Or Lawrence? Both welcome double majors? What about Ithaca if she is looking at Skidmore? Is Yale on the list? The school does not have a music performance major for undergrads but there are an abundance of ensembles and one can get a Bachelor of Arts in music at Yale…and major in something else too.
USC Thornton is relatively flexible about blending music with other fields of study, and they give significant merit for NMF - half-tuition and some full-tuition. If you’re already thinking of coming to LA for the 5C’s, checking out USC as well would make sense.
I agree that Rochester is worth pursuing. Also the CWRU joint program with CIM. Northwestern/Bienen and JHU/Peabody could also be worth a look.
I think your impression of Shepherd is pretty accurate. The social integration of music majors isn’t a problem because of the residential college system, but adding another academic concentration to a music major isn’t as easy as it is at some other schools.
St. Olaf and Lawrence U could be good safeties.
thanks again everyone (@thumper1 @aquapt @ultimom @SpiritManager @roycroftmom) - we are all reading all the comments and absorbing all we can - both in the ‘general’ threads and the music major section - especially the double degree post.
As D is just beginning her second semester sophomore year, she is still undecided about the extent to which she wants to focus on music in college. While her father and I would rather that she do a double major or double degree (assuming 5 years of undergrad), it is her choice.
If, after this summer’s intense and long chamber festival, she is fully committed to music (ie - aiming for a conservatory), we would have to figure out how to reduce her academic load to ensure that she has ample time and energy to dedicate the necessary hours to practice.
I think that USC and Vandy are great double degree options from what I have seen - the literature implies that the schools are set up to help kids get both degrees.
We all love the dual programs (Harvard/NEC, and Yale/YSM) - but those schools are such reaches for everyone, we are not counting on anything - so the next best are great schools with great music programs. Which leads us to the long list of schools to visit.
Oberlin is having some serious issues w/anti-semitism right now, so we are not too keen on sending her there - despite how great the program are.
Eastman/UR and Jacobs/IU are also on the list - as is Peabody/JHU and Bienen/NW - but for visits this summer, while we might add Peabody/JHU, the others would be one-off visits.
I am hoping that by Dec. of Jr year, she will have a better sense of which types of school best fit her and we will go visit some matches/safeties.
Thanks again for everything - I will keep reading and learning - might start a journey post too - I have been enjoying those very much.
Yale does not offer music performance degrees on the undergrad level…at all. Performance degrees are graduate programs only.
@thumper1 - there is a BA/MM program - her private teacher was there for MM and told us about this
There is no guaranteed admission BA/MM program at Yale. Your daughter will have to audition just like all of the other MM applicants…after or during her third year at Yale undergrad.
A BA is a Bachelor of Arts. There is far less performing than a BM degree would have and far more classes about music. Look at the curriculum before your daughter decides a BA is the same as a BM in music. It’s not…and the Yale faculty should have told you that.
In addition, undergrads usually have their lessons with the very talented graduate students and not the applied faculty. There is NO undergrad orchestra for music majors…but there are plenty of ensembles for undergrads.
It’s just not the same degree…big difference between a BM and a BA in music.
@thumper1 - thanks for the extra insight re:Yale’s program- I was unaware of the lack of UG orchestra- not sure she would be pleased at all w/o that outlet.
We will look into the details of the various curriculums over the course of this semester so she can go on the rest of the tours as savvy as possible.
Re: Y/YSM - it seems that as of 2017 the students can apply right out of HS (according to AO and web info) but they would be competing for a Master’s slot so they would need to be much more polished (much like NEC/Harvard).
Again - can’t thank you all enough for the trip help and building/reviewing the current list.
I think you misunderstood me…or i wasn’t clear…There are orchestras for undergrads at Yale…and they are excellent ones. There are some very very fine musicians amongst Yale undergrads. Your daughter would be playing with excellent musicians, in my opinion.
What I meant was…the orchestras are not for undergrad music majors only. At least they didn’t used to be.
Check and see.
As you know, the MM program is highly highly competitive as there is no tuition charge for all accepted music performance majors in the Yale MM program. Musicians from all over the world audition for that MM program which is terrific!
I know zero about music programs but one option to consider is to get over to 91 on the way from Princeton to Montreal (or back) and stay a night in Amherst or Northampton MA to see a few of Mt Holyoke, Amherst, Umass, Smith. Then over to Williams or up to Dartmouth (or both with some backtracking). Just a thought if you’re looking to hit more schools. I’d opt for DC after VA if she hasn’t been there.
Also, NEC/Harvard is an undergrad degree. NEC does have performance degrees for undergrads. The students do audition out of high school…and also need to be accepted academically at Harvard.
Same is true for Peabody/JHU.
Can a musician do well enough at the audition that it becomes a hook for admission?
@howdidwegethere If you are planning to visit Yale and Williams, you may consider Wesleyan University / Amherst College / Smith College as well.
@AlwaysMoving -
from what we have read, the NEC part of the Harvard/NEC program is for a Master’s in Music and the audition for NEC is completely separate from admission into Harvard - you must audition for NEC and you are competing against other Master’s applicants.
Per the Harvard website: “You must apply to both Harvard and NEC, indicating on both applications your interest in the Harvard-NEC dual degree option. If you are admitted to both institutions, you will then receive an additional decision for admission to the dual degree program.
Performance applicants will be expected to audition at NEC during the regular auditions period in February/March.
Composition applicants will be expected to interview at NEC during February/March if invited after review of scores and recordings.
Harvard first-year students may also apply for admission to the program.”
As such, I do not believe that the audition would be seen as a hook BUT you could submit an arts portfolio as part of your Harvard application.
Per the Harvard website: “At the discretion of the Admissions Committee, supplementary materials—such as music recordings, artwork, or selected samples of academic work—may be evaluated by faculty. These materials are entirely optional.”
@snowy2018 and @politeperson - thank you both for those suggestions - we were looking to add at least one or two of those during the drive
We have been to DC a number of times - but it is always and interesting option - kind of forgot about that!
The answer is…it depends. It is not exactly a hook, but at some schools with strong conservatory like music departments, the music folks can advocate for admission with a less strong academic profile.
At other schools, the academic bar must be met.
Remember, some music majors do switch majors…and the colleges want to feel comfortable that the student will be academically successful in any major.
If the student musician is THAT strong and has less than stellar stats, a conservatory might be a good choice. Admission to those places sometimes don’t require a high academic bar, but they do require a very very strong audition.
I agree with those that say that summer visits are not that helpful for the student, but certainly demonstrate interest. If you can have her narrow down or rank the list, you may want to try to visit her top choices during the school year. It is really hard to do between HS academics and ECs but gives a better view of what the college are like.
If you are going to CA in spring of Jr year, can fly into SFO and out of LAX to fit in the Claremont colleges (and have a great vacation in between!).
It also may make sense to not push to visit so many colleges this coming summer but wait until next year when she has figured out (or at least is leaning in a direction) whether she wants a performance major or to simply continue to play. Good luck!
We did most of our visits in the summer because of scheduling constraints. IMO, it was better than not visiting and we timed the first road trip to include some quarter based schools that were still in session.
IMO, the big schools were still bustling in the summer time with summer session, students doing research, students who stayed to work, etc and we still got a very good feel for the vibe.
When we did visits with our music major, he also tried to schedule a private lesson with the applied faculty on his instrument. We found that most of these folks were not around during the summer as many go to summer orchestral festivals. So…if your student wants to try to schedule a private lesson, you might need to check the availability of the applied faculty.
Another thing that my kid wanted to do at each school was sit in on an orchestra rehearsal. Again…this was not possible during the summer.
Nice
I’ll toss this out re: lots of campus visits.
We did not visit many schools before application season. Maybe 4-5 and some were simply “representative” of a school type.
I was surprised that our kid began to mix up the visits. It got blurry for her.
And, the weather that day plus the particular student giving the tour seemed to have an out-sized effect on her opinion of a school.
More visits may not bring clarity. There is so much one can learn by researching a school online and taking a virtual campus tour.
Some people wait to visit the finalist schools on the final acceptance list.
Obviously, there are many ways to approach this & YMMV!
Good luck!