<p>@fluffy2017 Good point. </p>
<p>@fluffy2017 wrote “It is a shame since it is a disservice to future applicants if CC is promoting the idea that an essay is what it takes to get you into all the Ivies.”</p>
<p>I agree with you on this point 100%.</p>
<p>I don’t get a few things:
- 2250 might be lower than average at Princeton and a few others, but in case you don’t know math, if 2300 is the 50th percentile cutoff, 50% of the people admitted get in with 2300 or less, and 50% of those admitted get in with 2300 or more. That does NOT mean he doesn’t “meet the criteria” for HYP.</p>
<p>2) I have not seen anyone mentioning Questbridge, which lets kids apply to up to eight (coincidentally) colleges of their choice. Could this have been a Questbridge applicant who was able to apply for free to all eight colleges? That does make a difference in my opinion.</p>
<p>3) The essay. Yes, the common app has one common essay at least. But many schools do have individual essays too, like “why Princeton?”. The thing is, I would find it much more amusing and telling to see what his individual college essays looked like. Were they all like “Princeton is my top choice!” and “Brown is my top choice!”?</p>
<p>4) Great achievement, maybe we can learn something from it. Like, if you are #2 in your class and 2300 on your SATs, and you don’t get into HYP, maybe, just MAYBE, you didn’t fit what they were looking for.</p>
<p>5) I happened to get into an Ivy with no football or sport, had an average SAT score for an Ivy, and was not in the top 10% of my class. It is not impossible. I would like to see his ECs, if anyone has them. If he is doing a publicity tour, I suppose they will come out.</p>
<p>@chesterton You seemed pretty offended by my comment. I thought you were being bitter about the “next generation” and how misinformed all of us are (your twitter comment) and our only saving grace is the immigrants that come here (the US). </p>
<p>@Momzie So a childlike sense of wonder is ‘silly’? I’m pretty sure Michael Jackson, Ludvig von Beethoven, Banksy, Orson Welles, and other artists didn’t take that same position. You have to have a burning passion, imagination, and childlike curiosity (and of course talent), to be successful in any artistic field. </p>
<p>Music happens to be Kwasi’s passion and he happens to view it with such adoration and astonishment that is characteristic of many cultured artists. Even professional filmmakers such as Steven Spielberg (talk about renowned) think of their art as something otherworldly. They describe their jobs with phrases like: “I dream for a living”.</p>
<p>Just because your son takes a very literal, monotonous view of music doesn’t mean Kwasi’s view of it being infinite in possibility is ‘silly’ or unserious. It’s really imaginative and profound. It’s different. It doesn’t show lack of depth, it demonstrates: creativity, skill in relating ideas, and a refreshing perspective.</p>
<p>@bozllie… oh yeah, thanks for taking the time to remind me. I had already forgotten about my response to your discussion of the news stories, etc. and overlooked it when I scanned earlier.</p>
<p>I am so glad you responded again, because I owe you an apology for directing that particular response to you. Yes, your note about the student being a first generation college student, rather than a first generation immigrant American, was not offensive at all, and I was not offended, though I can see now why you thought I was. What happens in these quick discussions, sometimes, is that comments can get mixed up, and I can see that while I initiated my post after reading yours, I was really referring back to the string of posts that were discussing the press, and the state of news gathering today.</p>
<p>I do get frustrated by the state of news gathering today, which is dumbed-down, and usually leaves more questions unanswered, and so my post reflects that frustration, not frustration towards you. And when I see the particular article about this story of the 8-Ivy-League student repeated, word for word, by innumerable news agencies, and no one takes the time to flesh it out, but just prints the same story, I find it disappointing. Why? Because I am old enough to remember when we did have a pretty decent press, and when news articles were newsworthy, and the writing at least at the 8th grade level, and in paragraph form, not condensed into 140 characters or less. I don’t think there is much of value that can be said in less than 140 characters, but that is a generational difference, no doubt. I also hate Facebook :)</p>
<p>It all comes from having used the internet before it went commercial, and from the work I have done in search engine evaluation, when Google used to return good results. For fun, in the old days of the internet, I would click on pages 15 or 40 of the Google results, just for serendipitous reasons, to find some unique and useful links about whatever it was I was researching. Those were the days when the internet was truly educational and inspiring and free of propaganda.</p>
<p>I don’t have a problem with people using Twitter. All I would suggest is that people of your generation deserve better when it comes to news and facts about the world. I think you are smart enough and perceptive enough not to have everything condensed down into whatever minimal facts some person, or powers that be, think you ought to know. Don’t let the powers that be tell you what to think. When you search a topic, don’t just go with the top suggested links. Those links are not random at all. Just as old-fashioned newspaper front pages were always specifically arranged to highlight certain stories, and downplay others, depending upon what the particular editor perceived was best, the internet has become the same. Expect more because you deserve it.</p>
<p>Thanks for giving me a chance to apologize to you. </p>
<p>
You might be surprised, in fact…
…oh. What do we have here?</p>
<p>My argument was that it is more beneficial in the abstract sense for any highly selective college to take seriously the intangible but extreme differences of intellectual caliber between students within the upper echelon, than to lump all “top students” together into a group and to treat this group cavalierly for the sake of creating a demographically diverse student body. You seem to have missed that point spectacularly.</p>
<p>Good day to you.</p>
<p>@rhandco - For his EC’s, see my post around the middle of page 4 of this thread. At the end of that same page, I was also the first to suggest that Mr. Berry did everyone a grave disservice by starting this thread and especially titling it as he did.</p>
<p>I’d just like to point out that part of his essay is factually wrong. He says that there are an infinite number of possibilities in music, there aren’t. There are a lot, but the number is finite. </p>
<p><a href=“Will We Ever Run Out of New Music? - YouTube”>Will We Ever Run Out of New Music? - YouTube;
<p>Entirely irrelevant and in now way proves I’m sour about someone else getting into Ivies that I didn’t.</p>
<p>@Darthelmet -
And yet you posted it anyway. When someone says the possibilities are infinite in a descriptive essay, as opposed to a mathematical proof, they are allowed a bit of hyperbole. I am sure you are familiar with the term “literary license”. What you posted, despite your disclaimer at the end, is a passive-aggressive act of sour grapes.</p>
<p>@chesterton Thank you for your comment back. I accept your apology and your post has given me something to reflect on. </p>
<p>@Halogen…no, I got your point. I just chose not to discuss it, with the exception of Archimedes, obviously. I am glad to hear that I would be surprised to learn how many Ivy League applicants could write at least a paragraph about him. I would love to read an application essay that discussed how Archimedes influenced and inspired some bright Ivy League applicant, or any college applicant for that matter. Maybe the topic of a future thread. One can hope.</p>
<p>Enin probably falls within the top <1% of African Americans. Of course nothing about him is extraordinary, but only if you compare with the rest of the applicant pool - Asians, Caucasians, etc. If you compare him solely within his racial group (which is what admissions officers do), he is beyond amazing. </p>
<p>Which, interestingly, is exactly what Edward Blum is using to try and drum up a lawsuit against Harvard (and others). <a href=“Affirmative-Action Foe Plans Campaigns Against 3 Universities”>Affirmative-Action Foe Plans Campaigns Against 3 Universities;
<p>Actually, with a 2250 composite SAT score, Enin falls within the top 1% for everybody. And according to the Crimson Class of 2017 Survey, slightly above the average for Harvard’s class of 2017 (2237). </p>
<p>The more I think about it Dave Berry’s title is not as off as first thought, and may even represent the very process that many advocate, i.e., holistic application review.</p>
<p>The following seems to be true, based on reporting etc.</p>
<ol>
<li><p>His SAT scores easily cleared the benchmark, and although just average for the Ivys, did help get him in.</p></li>
<li><p>His ECs showed depth and commitment and passion as well. Those help get him in.</p></li>
<li><p>He is into STEM, which is all the rage today (possibly overrated rage), but that help get him in.</p></li>
<li><p>His LORs were probably stellar given the support he has gotten from his school, so they help get him in.</p></li>
<li><p>His interview, while not seen, let’s assume it went well. That probably did help get him in.</p></li>
<li><p>His essay, while weak in many areas, is not the strongest part of his application, but it was not a crater either. So, holistically, it can be overlooked as a weak spot, but not worthy of dismissing the entire application. Even though not great, since it was acceptable, it did help get him in.</p></li>
</ol>
<p>Given a holistic review, having a not stellar part of an application, his essay, is not a disqualifier at all. In short, Dave Berry’s title is accurate in a holistic review arena - this essay did get him in. Think about it if the essay was a total bomb - doubt he would have gotten in then.</p>
<p>Most importantly, it was not up to Dave Berry to censor what many think is an average essay to protect the applicant. What is there to protect, as the applicant is giving media interviews to the world. To censor is just playing to the propaganda that he did something beyond average Ivy. </p>
<p>@Momzie gave a real example of what I have been saying - it is weird to give media interviews for a profile that is ordinary for the Ivys. It does seem odd because so many students have and did similar. Just as with the Wellseley young lady, students at the the Ivy goes to will see this as odd as well.</p>
<p>OK, a difference is he got into all Ivys. But, it begs the question of whom applies to all Ivys after SCEA at Princeton, unless it is done as a sort of stunt? All the Ivy students I hear talking are shaking their heads more than anything else. Makes little sense after SCEA acceptance at Princeton.</p>
<p>@EllieMom Actually I was referring more to the applicant pool. There are plenty of 2400 Asians and Caucasians who get rejected from Ivy universities every year. But to see a 2200+ African American is rare in and of itself.</p>
<p>@absentions - I think it is not a good thing to separate students by race, so I compare him to everyone. I view it as a dangerous practice to separate out by race because it only feeds into the stereotypes that blacks are not as smart or capable. They are. It is just that many hold them to and accept a lower standard of achievement. Holding to a lower standard is the worst racism I know because it says innately they are intellectually inferior. I do not buy that for a minute.</p>
<p>I heard an admissions officer at one of the college nights at our college say that there are a handful of essays that wow a committee that they put a candidate over the edge, and there are a handful of essays that tank an otherwise promising application, but the vast majority just affirm the impressions they have received from the rest of the application.</p>
<p>My older son’s essay basically said, “I’m a computer nerd” take me or leave me. My younger son’s essays were a lot more interesting. He was very, very aware that his grades were iffy and his scores were lop-sided, he made a big effort to make his essays show himself as a kid with potential, a little bit quirky, with some off the beaten path interests and with a nice self-deprecating sense of humor. Older son did fine, but perhaps a little worse than he had hoped, younger son did far better in admissions than expected, I have to think that his essays and letters of recommendation were what made the difference.</p>
<p>When you factor in a few different things, you can understand why some non-white/asian students don’t score 2100+ on the SAT. First and foremost, the SAT really is a test of three things: 1) Are you clear of worries while taking this exam? 2) How much money can/do your parents put in to test prep? and 3) How good are you at memorization? </p>
<p>It’s not that African Americans aren’t exceptional, oh they are. It’s just that they are told so many times that they can’t do normal things (like make it to university) and they face constant struggles everyday. Just being AA is an adventure. The men typically experience it more ‘physically’ while women tend to experience it more ‘psychologically’. You can seriously ask any black person and they will tell you that their race is a master status for them. It doesn’t matter how great they truly are, many people just see them as another stereotypical black person. </p>
<p>And I can’t tell you that white people have the same problem.</p>