High-achieving student with "lite" senior year courseload - chances?

<p>< The OP’s daughter is interested in UC’s – the top ones will expect a rigorous senior year – they are more merit-based and definitely not the “crap shoot” that Harvard, Yale, Princeton seem to be ></p>

<p>Point taken. However, admission to the UCs sounds very subjective to me. If extracurriculars, recommendations, essays, and other subjective criteria are important, admissions will be subjective and unpredictable.</p>

<p>I still stand by my position - the OP’s daugther should stick to her guns. The OP’s daughter makes my old high school self look like Ferris Bueller, Zack Morris, Jeff Spiccoli, or Bill and Ted in comparison despite the fact that I had been known as the academically obsessed one back in the day. I don’t see how the Academic Performance Cult track can be sustainable given the health problems already mentioned.</p>

<p>If the OP’s daughter takes this new track and gets rejection letters from the top UCs, she won’t regret her change. But if she continues with the Academic Performance Cult track, (by some miracle) somehow manges to survive it, and gets rejected from the top UCs anyway, she’ll regret it and wonder what might have been.</p>

<p>Looking back at my life, my regrets tend to be about times when I just went through the motions and didn’t really stand for anything. I can’t think of any regrets I have that sound like, “I should have studied harder” (because I know that if I could go back, I wouldn’t have the capacity to study harder), “I could have earned a better grade” (because I know I could have done worse and wouldn’t necessarily do better if I could go back), or “I should have done better on the test” (ditto).</p>

<br>

<br>

<p>Not so concerned about this since OPs D has already done the BC Calculus thing. That’s as far as you can go at any of the high schools in our district. Taking classes at the local JC is nice, but it doesn’t always fit into the school/EC schedule–not to mention the transportatiion problems if your kid doesn’t drive.</p>

<p>I’ll be interested to see if this schedule changes after she has had a summer to decompress after the draining junior year. She could regain her equilibrium after a nice rest and want to put some more vigor into her senior year.</p>

<p>Regarding the UC’s – the senior year schedule is looked at particularly closely by the UC’s, especially the most selective ones (UCB, UCLA, UCSD). I have been told this directly by several UC admissions directors. While they do consider “special talents” such as music in the admissions process, the overall strength of curriculum, including senior year curriculum, gets more focus and weight. Her grades and test scores are great for the UC’s, but her senior year schedule is likely to raise some eyebrows at the top UC’s. If she follows this path, I would suggest that she pay careful attention to answering the UC essay question about taking advantage of the academic opportunities available to her. She’ll have 600 words to explain why she opted to focus on her music. If well done, it could work in her favor. </p>

<p>But, no ifs, ands, or buts about it, the schedule she wants to take is going to be a risk for more selective higher level universities. This doesn’t mean that your daughter should NOT follow through with her plan, but make sure that it is a CALCULATED risk. That means you both need to understand that taking this route WILL make some options less likely, and that you and she will need to keep an open mind about a backup plan, especially if money is likely to be an issue. Of course, there is also no guarantee that if she DOES take a deeper schedule that it will get her in anywhere either. :)</p>

<p>That said, as a parent, I also believe that getting into college, or a certain group/level of colleges, is not the most important thing in the world. Sometimes, we really do need to consider the bigger picture of what will be best for our children’s mental and physical health. As long as your daughter understands that her choices will likely have consequences at <em>some</em> colleges, but that she will have PLENTY of other great college options IF she keeps an open mind, then I think I too might lean towards the lighter schedule in this particular instance. Her mental and physical health should take precedence over the “maybes” of college admissions.</p>

<p>Finally, I have to agree with Northstarmom’s comments earlier: The picture you are painting of your daughter indicates to me that the types of universities you and she seem to be focusing on at this time really may not be the best match for her personality. There is more to a good college match than just the intellectual match --it would be wise to take a closer look at some of the issues you’ve raised about her shyness, the ways she deals with stress, etc. and perhaps reconsider what type of environment might enable her to do best, not just intellectually, but socially and health-wise as well. Getting in is only half the battle. Staying in, and being happy and well, is the other half. It is sometimes better to address these sorts of issues BEFORE heading off to a college that isn’t the right environment than having to head home after a semester because a student wasn’t ready to cope. (Not saying that this is the case with your daughter, but the way you are describing her raises some questions in my mind).</p>

<p>Looking at the acceptances from my kid’s school at UC’s over the past few years, I would say that it is not a crapshoot at all; nor is it particularly subjective. UCLA is a little more unpredictable, but UCB will almost always accept top students into the College of Letters and Sciences, i.e., with the kinds of grades and SAT scores listed by the OP and “the most rigorous” course load, with not very much consideration of extracurricular stuff – and it has a fairly high acceptance rate for a top-quality school (over 20%); UCSB accepts about 50% of applicants; Davis has also had a high acceptance rate, though this year it was down slightly (it is not the best choice for music performance of the UC’s); UCSC accepts over 50%. This high rate is in large part because the matriculation rate is fairly low; the UCB Regents’ Scholars from my kid’s school all chose other schools (Brown, Oberlin, among others, and for a variety of “fit” reasons, including music performance opportunities).</p>

<br>

<br>

<p>Agree with Carolyn on this. As long as you know the risks involved, choose to go with “senior year lite” and your D can live with the consequences (if any–there may not be any)–go for it! I just wouldn’t want her to feel later that if she had but known the consequences of taking an academically light schedule, she would have chosen her senior classes differently.</p>

<p>

</p>

<p>The OP’s daughter has completed BC Calculus. If more advanced courses are only offered at local colleges, the inconvenience of taking one could be considerable. And even if a more advanced course, or a course on a math topic that she has not yet studied (such as AP Statistics), is offered at her high school, she may not need or want it. If she plans to major in music, she already has taken more math than she will ever need. I see no disadvantage in choosing a different academic course instead of math.</p>

<p>"The music activities listed by the OP are overlapping (3 choruses) and most high school chorus and jazz programs are fairly mediocre – is it worth taking three of them?"</p>

<p>Correction: 2 choruses and jazz band (instrumental; she is going to play piano for it and very excited to try new genre after many years of classical music). Also one of the choruses (big and mediocre one) is mandatory for participation in another (small, prestigious, by auditions only). That’s why she came to such an “ovelapped” schedule.</p>

<p>Have followed this thread for a while. I agree that getting enough sleep is really critical, and she’s showing maturity and good judgement when she makes the decision to correct that. Also, she should certainly pursue her interest in music - it’s something that she will be able to turn to for satisfaction and solace her whole life. Seems to me that her schedule isn’t “lite” - after all, she’s taking 2 AP’s, but it’s a little unbalanced. Doesn’t seem that there’s any need to take more science if it’s not her first interest (and I agree that she may get turned onto it again in college, as that’s what happened to me). And I’m not sure that AP Stat is the way to go - it’s not really math, at least not in hs, and the kids that I know who took calc as jrs and Stat as srs said that it was easy but really boring. If she’s interested in math and thinks that she might want to take more in college, how about looking at a self-paced program such as EPGY (Stanford)? Alternatively, if she thinks that she’s going to want to focus on language, what about taking a class at the local jc? Maybe conversational French, or perhaps a new language such as Italian, which is a fun language for singers to learn, and easier if you’ve had some French and/or Spanish. Just don’t put the classes on the hs transcript - send the grades separately. If she has a 4.0 GPA or better, the jc grades will actually lower her weighted GPA, at least at my kids’ school.</p>

<p>The proposed independent study options (Physics&Music and/or French Literature) seem to present the perfect solution here. Well, if it is possible at this particular school, and if DD will find a teacher to sponsor it.</p>

<p>If that’s not possible, and the foreign language at community college will conflict with the musical… well, maybe it’s possible to find an online course (not necessarily in a nearby college, but also at UNebraska, UTexas, etc.) If not a foreign language, than maybe Psychology or Stats? </p>

<p>The Math courses at EPGY also sound good. There’s no need to take on Multivariable Calculus, there are other courses which may fit better. For example, the Introduction to Logic course includes topics like “Symbolizing English Sentences”, and that sounds pretty in tune with Linguistics.</p>

<p>"Just don’t put the classes on the hs transcript - send the grades separately."</p>

<p>In her school, it’s impossible. Jc grades go to her h/s transcript automatically - all the students and parents are warned about that when to try to register fo any jc classes.</p>

<p>“* If she has a 4.0 GPA or better, the jc grades will actually lower her weighted GPA, at least at my kids’ school.*”</p>

<p>Why? Any grades or only those below A’s? ;)</p>

<p>The reason that even an A can bring down a GPA that’s over 4.0 is because the A is counted as 4 points, not 5 like an AP class. If you average a 4.0 grade into a GPA that’s above 4.0 it’ll bring it down slightly. However, if your hs automatically includes the jc grades, I wouldn’t worry about it too much. It won’t bring the GPA down enough to worry about unless your daughter is seriously gunning for valedictorian, and I don’t think that many of the private schools look that closely the hs GPA calculation (Stanford says that they recalculate it anyway, and I suspect that other colleges do also). I think that the main thing is for your daughter to find that balance between academics, music, and sleep that will make her senior year a satisfying one, and jc classes might give her more flexibility in her schedule, since they don’t meet as often.</p>

<p>My daughter took multiv calc at Cal last fall (as a senior) and was thrilled to get a B- in the class, so it was nice not to have it calculated into her GPA, but I don’t think it would have had much impact on her applications even if it had been included. She sent Cal’s grade report as a separate attachment to her transcript.</p>

<p>Now that school is starting, was your daughter able to catch up on her sleep this summer? What did she decide to do about schedules?</p>

<p>To quote the mass of teen girls “OMG!!!”. Your kid is going to be fine - these tiny differences over 4APs in one field and 4 in another vs 5 in one and 3 in another… Get real! Let your kid do what they have a passion for and let thier application reflect it. If they love music, that essay will more than count for one more or less AP class.
Always a band mom… sorry.</p>

<p>I’m not coming at this from a parent or adcom’s perspective, but I really have to echo dragonmom. I generally try to read an entire thread before commenting, so I apologize if this advice is redundant…I only looked at 6-7pgs of this one.</p>

<p>This thread seems to be making this issue out to be FAR more black and white than it is, like if this girl adds an AP or two, it’ll make the difference between going to a lower public or ‘the Ivies.’ I don’t think most posters have actually been saying that directly, but it’s the overall feeling that I got. Goodness gracious. </p>

<p>First off, this proposed senior year schedule isn’t light. It may not be on the same plane as the girl’s previous years, but it still has two serious APs and it reflects the student’s real passions…she’s not taking zero challenging courses, she’s not taking “fluff” APs, and she isn’t supplementing those she is taking with Intro Drawing, Music Appreciation, and Kickboxing (which are all fine electives in general, but in combination, they would scream “light schedule,” while this girl’s course selection stems logically and obviously from her other interests and activities). Remember that she’s also completely exhausted her school’s offerings in numerous other subjects. The schedule/transcript leaves absolutely no reason to doubt that the student is driven and capable. On top of that, it shows that she knows herself (which puts her ahead of many students who sign up for every AP “just because” and then see their GPA and their mood both plummet), she has unique passions, and she’s viewing her HS experience as more than just a means to a good college. I personally feel that these are all excellent things to demonstrate, and that this schedule, in conjunction with the student’s other accomplishments and commitments, does so much more strongly than most.</p>

<p>Also, this student has exceptional test scores and great ECs. It sounds like she’ll probably interview well when/if the time comes (and an interview, for the record, could be a great chance for her to explain her scheduling decisions). I see no significant weaknesses; I see a description of a girl who sounds sufficiently mature and self-knowing to ‘follow her own bliss,’ as others have stated. This won’t cause significant roadblocks, especially if the OP and her daughter are aware of the need to frame the issue well (which they clearly are).</p>

<p>Obviously this is only my personal take on the issue, and it seems to put me in the minority, but I came from a high school–a great high school–where the maximum number of AP classes that I ever remember one student taking in a year was 4, and I can think of 2-3 classmates who ever actually did so. I can think of one person who might possibly have taken 5 during her senior year, but I’m not sure of that (and this was a school where we all knew each other, so the entire student body is my sample pool). Yes, the school offered enough APs that students could theoretically have taken more at once, although we were generally discouraged from doing so. What I came out of the school believing very firmly is that there are many ways to challenge yourself and more ways into top schools than just blindly signing up for a list of AP classes. No, I’m certainly not saying that top students shouldn’t strive for a rigorous schedule and so on and so forth, but I’m definitely saying that this schedule, to me, looks completely fine, and communicates a lot more about the student (in a positive way!) than a more typical schedule might. It shouldn’t be cause for major concern.</p>

<p>And finally, if a student as accomplished and driven as the OP’s daughter feels burnt-out and in need of a break, then she should probably be taken seriously. It’s my personal belief that getting a little ‘break’ and enjoying her senior year (I put ‘break’ in quotes because it’s certainly relative) will, in the long run, be a lot less harmful to college admission, selection, and success than the alternative. Totally burnt out and turned off of school is not a good way to feel during the application process (it could do far more damage than a lack of senior year math) or the first year of college. Gotta speak from experience here.</p>

<hr>

<p>On a slightly separate note, someone earlier in the thread warned about CC courses lowering a GPA. Remember that schools aren’t just looking at the number, they’re looking at it in a context (relative to other applicants from the school, ranking, course selection, etc.). An AP class is never better than a regular class “just because” it’s AP (nor is a CC course necessarily better “just because” it’s college-level, to be clear). I personally think more highly of a student who disregards the ‘watering down’ of GPA and challenges herself or pursues her interests however she can–taking a regular course if she knows it’s better than its AP counterpart, taking a random intro elective because it interests her, taking a regular English elective on top of AP just because she loves the subject, or whatever else–than I do of a student who spends 4 years being guided by one little number. For example, the single most self-driven, dedicated, and intellectually curious student in my HS class had far from the highest class ranking. Why? Because she was completely passionate about foreign languages, so she’d ‘watered down’ her GPA by electing to take so many of them, none of which had honors or AP available until the third and fourth levels (if at all, which two didn’t). No college was about to punish her for that, and she went to Princeton. Another girl did something very similar and went to Harvard. Her yearbook quote was “God is not spelled GPA.”</p>

<p>Anyway, just my little rant. I think it’s completely easy and understandable to get caught up in this line of thinking–I have to take all of the APs, I have to be #1 in my class, I have to this and that or colleges won’t like me–but it seems so needless, especially when a student has already proven herself to be talented and driven. We all know that having perfect stats won’t magically get you IN to every school…what’s important to remember is that going a little bit off the beaten “college bound” track won’t necessarily keep you out, either.</p>

<p>ETA: I just realized that this thread has only recently been ‘resurrected.’ Sorry for the irrelevance, but I said too much to be able to bear erasing it :p</p>