Clark University in Worcester, Mass fits this profile. They are interested in students who want to “change the world.” I don’t know what kind of dance program they have.
I’m surprised that posters are worried about safeties with the revised list including UCSB & UCD as matches. Obviously the GPA is fine for UC admissions and I think that UCSB is a near-safety. I also think that with her interests in sustainable agriculture and soil science, UCD would be a great choice – and I think there’s an excellent chance of admission.
Depending on family finances, I’m not sure more private-college safeties are needed or appropriate. Will she qualify for enough need-based aid to match the in-state tuition rates at UCD? If not… then I think it would be odd to encourage schools private schools that have fewer offerings than would be available to her at a UC campus.
I know I went through that thought process with my daughter – I was concerned that the schools she was targeting (Barnard, Chicago, NYU) were too reachy – but I also wasn’t in a position to pay full cost for a private college, much less pay extra for an education that might fall short of what the UC campuses provide in term of resources and scope of offerings. So in our case, “meets full need” was pretty much non-negotiable and many of the “safeties” being suggested simply can’t offer that.
My DD visited Goucher (which we had targeted as a safety) and felt that the academic environment there was simply not up to the level that she was seeking. That was 10 years ago and as colleges have become more selective in general, things might have changed – but it sounds like your friend is every bit as ambitious in her goals as my DD was. (I tried to get my d. interested in Yale, where she had a theoretical hook… but no go, she applied to Brown instead, despite my refusal to pay the application fee given the obvious waste of money. )
So bottom line: if this California high school student is willing to attend a UC campus, then she probably does not need more safeties. I think UC Davis would be an excellent match for her interests – actually better than her “reaches” of Berkeley and UCLA - and any kid with a 4.0 GPA is going to have an easy path into the UC system. It seems like a no brainer for UCD to admit a kid who wants to combine a poli-sci major with studying sustainable agriculture and soil science.
Again I ask…why does this student need or want to go to college 3000 miles away from her home state? In other words…why is she concentrating on east coast schools?
With her current ACT score…there are still too many reach schools on her list in my opinion. Why is this necessary?
What about American University? It doesn’t meet full need for all, but she would get accepted.
How much will the family contribute annually? Do they have significant financial need?
Will they be able to pay their family contribution and student contribution at a school,that meets full need?
Since she spent a year in NYC, I think she’s plenty independent to consider the East Coast. She’s also fine with California schools. Agree that UCD seems to be a really good fit in a lot of ways! I think she can dream big and embrace prestige as long as she has some matches and safeties. Look, no one around her is thinking big; why can’t she? She knows her reaches, Yale, in particular, BC, Barnard, UCB and UCLA are long shots.
I honestly don’t know about the finances, and they don’t share. She lives with the mom who is a home maker, and the dad is some sort of business person (maybe?). They might have relatives that help out; I really don’t know much more than the daughter at USF does get need-based aid, and this student has said she wants to find as much need-based aid (and scholarships, if possible) as she can.
calmom, your D is at Barnard, correct? How has the aid been?
“she mentioned she’d heard Univ. of Florida was a good school.”
Is she researching schools?
You’re getting a still-expanding list of school names, but I still think it’s wise to strategize how they will perceive her.
My D graduated from Barnard in 2010. Barnard offered better financial aid than any other college that admitted her, although the only other full need college was U. of Chicago- and their financial aid policies has changed substantially since then (as has their admit rate). However, UC financial aid was better overall, because it calculated need based on FAFSA alone – whereas Barnard, like most private colleges, factors in home equity and non-custodial parent income.
Sounds like your friend also has a NCP issue, so the aid picture might depend a lot on the father’s income. Probably worth exploring before she applies anywhere. There’s nothing worse that getting accepted at a “dream” school that has to be turned down because of insufficient financial aid. The need-only, 100% need schools are the best bet for families with modest incomes, but they also tend to be formulaic and aid packages are not generally negotiable.
Also, you mention that the mom is a homemaker. Is the mom remarried? If so, her spouses income will also need to be reported on the financial aid application forms.
No, mom is not remarried. There are three kids, and two will be in college. I can ask the dad again about finances since he’s the one I know. I’ve emailed him and I’ll see what he says. I don’t know about home ownership-don’t know if they own or rent. She did mention something about Blue Gold at UCs, but not sure they actually qualify. I’ll see what I can find out.
I send her suggestions and she looks at the schools online. For instance, she found out by researching that Villanova is off the list because she is not taking four years of science and they require it. I’m still waiting to see her transcripts.
Oh, and she says her weighted GPA should go up. Apparently, the high school didn’t weight her honors and AP class that she took in freshman and sophomore year, but maybe they are fixing that. I’m staying tuned.
Got a quick email back, and dad says that EFC would be around 5K. Not sure how that works. The mom is remarried, but their income is low. Do schools take the dad’s income into consideration?
We’ll be talking on Wednesday, but I can see why 100% meets needs schools are appealing if this is truly the case.
For UCs and CSUs, HS GPA is recalculated by their own method described at http://www.csumentor.edu/planning/high_school/gpa_calculator.asp ; honors courses are listed at https://hs-articulation.ucop.edu/agcourselist . So what the HS reports as weighted or unweighted GPA does not matter for UCs and CSUs.
UCs and CSUs use only FAFSA, so only the custodial parent’s finances matter. But schools which use the CSS Profile (which is most of those which have good financial aid) use the non-custodial parent’s finances as well, except for a few that explicitly say that they do not. When running the net price calculator at the CSS Profile schools, all income and assets from both parents and any new spouses should be included.
FAFSA EFC of around $5,000 probably comes from a middle income custodial parent and spouse, rather than a low income custodial parent and spouse. CSS Profile using schools may calculate their EFCs in various different ways.
The private schools will take the father’s income into consideration. California state school won’t – they don’t met full need, but at least in my experience, the “gap” with the state schools was less than the “premium” tacked on by virtue of dad’s income +home equity being counted. Plus the UC’s offered my d. about $2K of merit money.
But if the father thinks EFC is about $5K (and understands the basic ins and outs of filling out a FAFSA)-- then a school like Barnard would probably be affordable, assuming the family understands and is willing to put in something more than their FAFSA EFC.
In any case, they don’t need to figure that all out now – the main point was determining whether it’s even worthwhile to apply. Given that level of potential need, the daughter should be looking at 100% need schools. She’ll get more money from a need-based grant than from merit money anywhere - as her test scores put her out of the running for major merit money (like full tuition scholarship). With her GPA she will be offered money at schools that can be considered matches or safeties, but they will be smaller awards, probably in the range of $10K-$15K at most at the schools that have been mentioned. Maybe $20K if she’s lucky. $15K sounds like a lot in theory, but with current tuition levels she probably needs to have $40K worth of grant money to make a private college affordable - unless the family has sheltered assets that aren’t reflected in the FAFSA number. (If the father owns a business that could be the case, as small business assets generally aren’t counted). Barnard COA is now well above $60K – so even with $40K of grants + a Stafford loan + work study, the parents would need to come up with $15K+.
@sbjdorlo Villanova is off the list because she is not taking four years of science and they require it
Double check the science requirement at Villanova. In the college of arts and sciences it is not 4 yrs of sciences. It may be 2 classes, but a class is a single semester not a yr. They also have social science requirements, not to be confused with natural sciences. But didn’t you say she was interested in some type of science (soil science?)
Though it is good on her part that she is checking into core requirements. They do vary greatly within the schools of your list, with some having more stringent cores and some being more ‘open’. That can be a deciding factor for some.
my s had the opposite problem, a b+ avg and mid 2100 sat, his app oozed creativity. He was accepted ed to oberlin. One of his good friends also applied ed and the cost for him was the same as a ny state school. he had a 3.8 gpa but an sat score in the 1900-2000 range.
they’re both home for their first break and they seem very happy. Apparently, the conservatory adds a great dimension, my son has already been to five concerts/shows. Might be worth a look.
UC Davis admits by School. Sustainable Ag is in the School of Agriculture and Environmental Science. The Community and Regional Development major also has a Global policy focus. Political Science in the School of Arts and Letters might be a harder admit. Not sure how you could find out admit rates by School at Davis but it might be worthwhile.
@wisteria100, I had the same initial reaction to the 4 years of science issue, but then I figured that it probably meant they require 4 years of HS science. 
Same thing with us. My S’s “safety” school in fact came through with the worst FA package, even though it included both merit and grant money.
@ consolation I had the same initial reaction to the 4 years of science issue, but then I figured that it probably meant they require 4 years of HS science.
I see what you are saying. I’m sure 4 yrs of science is a strong recco not a requirement, but most selective liberal arts colleges are going to have that same recco, plus 4 yrs of foreign language, english and math
Yes, this student has only taken three years of high school science. Upon further research and understanding of her high school, while there are definitely smart kids there, it’s apparently not a great school in a lot of ways. Even though she’s a peer counselor and friends with a number of counselors, the advising is weak (as is attested by the fact that she’d never known about subject tests or arts supplement). I saw their “college” night, and there was only one UC school on the list. This is the list of colleges that visited this high school:
September 29th US Navy
October 6th: The Art Institutes
October 8th Montana State
October 13th UCSD
October 14th: Concordia-Portland
October 16th: University of Utah Business Scholars Program
October 19th: Northern Arizona U
October 20th: William Jessop College
October 22nd: Azusa Pacific
November 10th:FIDM (Fashion Institute)
November 18th: Embry Riddle (Aeronautical University)
She did say she heard of a student this year getting a “full ride scholarship” to Harvard for softball. I needed to educate her on that, too.
Re. UCD–
This was very helpful information. Does that mean a student can’t minor in something from another college, do you suppose? Guess I need to do more digging.
I’m talking with the dad tomorrow. He says he just wants to see what % of need schools meet; obviously the more, the better. He and I agree in the 80%+ ball park. Clearly, meeintg 100% demonstrated need is best. This is why I am still working on helping her shape her list.
Listen, I did the same thing with my two sons, middle son in particular. He was cynically focused on financially almost exclusively; thus, we were looking for that one college to which he was admitted that we could afford. And indeed, though there were a lot of “almost affordable” options in the end, he will be attending the one college that met full need and that will allow his outside scholarship to bring down costs even further.
Just FYI, the best dance program and opportunities within the UC system are located at UC Irvine,
seconded by UCSB, which is more classically ballet focused than UCI.
Actually, some of the most selective colleges are also more flexible. It varies and the student is smart to look at that. My DD’s high school counselor had suggested Boston University as a match -compared to Barnard / U of Chicago as reaches – but BU waitlisted my daughter. One big stumbling block was that their web site made it clear they were firm on their math requirements, and DD had only 3 years of high school math. No great loss to us obviously, but it just is one more illustration that you definitely need to look beyond stats and admit rates when assessing strength of program.
As to the strength of dance programs at various UC campuses – I think when a student wants to continue with dance but does NOT want to major or even minor in dance – the best college dance programs are often not a good choice. That’s because very often a student will find that the studio classes in those programs are closed to non-majors or very restrictive. I checked briefly on the UC Davis web site and there didn’t seem to be any such restriction in their catalog - there’s no real value in attending a college with a top flight dance program if the dance classes are closed to poli sci majors. Additionally, there may be more performance opportunities for a non-major at a college with a well-established but less-than-amazing dance department.
Though I’d have to add that my experience and that of many other former dance moms is that when a kid goes off go college to study something other than dance, they usually end up tapering off on the dance interest as well. They just get busy with other stuff and when dance is no longer an every-day, several hours in the studio activity, it also stops being the center of their lives. I’m guessing many parents of high school athletes who enroll in colleges with the intent to try out as walk on’s or participate in IM sports rather than inter-collegiate teams probably see the same fall off. So for a non-major I would not advise looking for the “best” programs. A decade ago when my DD was developing her list, I posted a message on CC asking for suggestion of colleges with well-established but mediocre dance programs — as a parent, I was looking for “mediocre” because I thought my daughter’s dance credentials could be a hook at a college that wasn’t attracting the very best dancers.