<p>We can move every US citizen to medicare and then no worry about teachers having free health care. Individuals can purchase medigap policies on their own if they want extra coverage. </p>
<p>We need to then decide on class size and class offerings. Those two things set the cost. In NJ teachers pensions cost property owners zero in property tax so the premise that the pensions drive NJ property tax is flawed</p>
<p>In NY state pensions are a big portion of our school budget. I do not expect those who have been promised a certain pension to lose it. That is one reason why I thought combining school districts and bulk purchasing would help to reduce costs.</p>
<p>That is why it is important to differentiate the areas we are discussing and that things are not the same all over. NJ has the highest property taxes in the US. Many years ago to alleviate some of the burden the State of NJ picked up the cost of the pensions- 4% of a teachers base salary-and the employers share of ss contributions. The State has played games with the pension contributions since. So neither of these costs are placed on property tax payers in NJ.</p>
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<p>In NYC’s case, the trend has been going towards smaller sometimes more specialized K-12 schools in place of larger comprehensive ones from 20+ years ago when I attended NYC public schools. </p>
<p>One key reason for that is that they found larger schools made it much more likely students…especially those on the margins were going to fall through the cracks due to large size, overwhelmed staff, and a larger student population which is harder to regulate/discipline on a daily basis. </p>
<p>My old neighborhood’s formerly crime-ridden comprehensive HS has had its building converted to housing 4 smaller high schools to not only better serve students, but also hopefully prevent/minimize student disciplinary issues/crimes so they don’t rise back to the levels prevalent during my K-12 years.</p>
<p>Our regional school district, as well as the district where I was employed already DO bulk purchasing for just about every consumable imaginable, even fuel oil (most of our schools are heated with oil), and gasoline (for the buses).</p>
<p>How can inefficiencies be cut? How about eliminating unfunded mandates? When these happen, local boards of education are left having to fund these mandates.</p>
<p>Our state has gotten on the Magnet School bandwagon, with many of these magnet schools getting new buildings and supplies. They are very costly. It’s just transferring (higher) costs from one school to another.</p>
<p>Speaking of property taxes, I wish our county would debit our account!( I paid online)</p>
<p>Public employee pensions seem generous to me. Those of us who work in the private sector have had to deal with pensions eroding or disappearing. Some of us have also had to deal with pay cuts.</p>
<p>Willowoak, do their pensions seem generous, or does your retirement compensation in the private sector seem lower than is reasonable?</p>
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<p>This is really the crux of the resentment. When you started your career, you had a choice of private- or public-sector work (I’m making some assumptions here). You probably saw more upside back then to the private-sector job–better long-term earning potential, maybe stock options, more opportunities for advancement. If things had gone according to plan, you’d STILL be doing better than your counterparts in the public sector. </p>
<p>Meanwhile, let’s say your peer, “Sam,” faced the same career options at the beginning of his career. At that time he may have thought it was worth the tradeoff of a lower salary, a more limited career trajectory, and less control over his retirement (remember people don’t generally have a choice about pension contributions the way they do 401k plans). He decided to take the public-sector job for less current income but potentially greater DEFERRED income since he knew he would one day receive a pension benefit.</p>
<p>If things had continued as you expected at the start of your career, you’d be leaps and bounds ahead of Sam in terms of your career advancement, money in the bank, and so on. You wouldn’t resent him at all. But instead you do because YOUR choice hasn’t paid off the way you had hoped. It is not Sam’s fault that your employer is pocketing more profit or passing on healthcare costs to you and the other employees or failing to give decent raises and promotions. This is exactly how the so-called class warfare is working. It is all a big distraction from the larger issues of income inequality in our country.</p>
<p>Sally, the dynamic you describe is true, but in general a person can choose NOT to support a business and the employees in it, in the private sector. I don’t like the way Bank of America pays its employees-- I can get a car loan with a local, community bank. I don’t like the way Walmart treats its workers- I can shop at Kohl’s. I like shopping at Trader Joes- I know several of the workers there and they brag constantly about what a humane, family friendly, respectful environment it is. But if I don’t like it- there are four or five supermarkets in the same area.</p>
<p>I have no ability to avoid or boycott the employers of public employees. The local newspaper where I live prints the salaries of the top 100 city workers and although some of the abuses on it are appalling- I can’t boycott my local sanitation service (it’s the only game in town) and I can’t avoid having public employees plow the streets when it snows.</p>
<p>So I don’t think it’s class warfare. WE (the taxpayers) have no choice-- public employees work in monopolistic activities.</p>
<p>I think you’ve hit on a core fact- when the rising tide is lifting all the boats, people can afford to be generous, and when the tide stops rising, people look around with greater scrutiny at everything.</p>
<p>It’s not Sam’s fault if my organization is passing on healthcare costs to me-- but the fact of the matter is that since the train left that station years ago in the private sector, it is irritating to hear public employees complain about what the rest of us have been contending with for over a decade. </p>
<p>I think the issue of income inequality has little to do with the public/private divide. The core issue is millions of adults with few marketable skills, limited education, and limited access to the places where there are jobs. That’s where your inequality is at play- a minimum wage worker in Orlando Florida who can’t easily relocate to Iowa or North Dakota or Texas or another place where there is a shortage of workers.</p>
<p>The difference between a person with a Master’s degree who teaches HS chemistry, vs. the person with the Master’s degree who works in R&D for Pfizer? I don’t think that’s the cause of income inequality in our country.</p>
<p>Appreciate your thoughts, blossom.</p>
<p>You are right that you have no ability to boycott or avoid the employers of public workers. But part of deciding what community to live in is evaluating the services that are offered to residents. Do you value good schools? Smooth roads? A business-friendly environment with ample tax breaks? You buy into the social contract, if you will, when you put down roots in a city or town. And you don’t get to choose a la carte which things you want to pay for. You can’t say “I only need garbage pickup once a week, so I don’t want to pay for twice” or “My kids have grown, thus I no longer want to support the schools.” If you don’t like the terms of the agreement, you can either a) get involved and advocate for change, or b) move. So I guess in that sense you CAN avoid patronizing the “business” of the public services where you live.</p>
<p>Also, we are saying two different things about income inequality. I am talking about the huge gap between the very wealthy and everyone else. Some countries (i.e., Switzerland) are trying to place limits on executive pay vs. that of the rank-and-file workers. That would never happen here, but we all continue to buy into the myth that businesses are struggling and that we all have to pitch in and help them out–even though the facts tell a rather different story.</p>
<p>blossom- I do not think public employees are complaining about changes in our work environment. I think we are trying to correct misconceptions about our compensation.</p>
<p>I have not had a salary increase since 2007, I pay 30% of my health care premium and I have taken over the responsibilities of two other managers when they retired. That does not mean I should not provide the very best service I can. It also does not mean when people go on a message board and make general statements about public workers they should not be corrected.</p>
<p>As I said earlier there is nothing wrong with discussing public worker compensation but it should be based on factual correct information and not based on the worst abuses.
If I read about the lavish salary of a CEO or wall Streeter would I be correct and assume that excess applies to all private sector employees.</p>
<p>As far as boycotting: just wanted to note that the last time I got a mortgage, I chose a mid-sized local bank. Their rates were good and I was happy to be avoiding the big banks. My mortgage was promptly sold to Bank of America. I’ve had 5 or 6 mortgages I think and every last one has been sold. So much for choosing who I do business with.</p>
<p>The idea that that higher taxes equals smooth roads, good schools and a business friendly environment and the social contract that allows the government to confiscate huge chunks of your money and other property is a sucky contract. I call it the “necessary evil.” Government is a necessary evil - it has the power to take property by force, to imprison against one’s will or to kill a person. We allow the government to exercise these powers in the name of justice. It is the necessary evil that must be performed by someone.</p>
<p>High taxes could do some good for a community but its a joke when you see public officials with multimillion dollar pensions, making hundreds of thousands in overtime pay or making far more money than the average person in their community. There are those that offer patronage, practice cronyism and intimidate opponents and donors. Higher taxes are often a sign of abuse and corruption which may be why some of the highest taxed cities in New Jersey are also some of the most corrupt (Camden, Newark) and around the country also - Detroit has high taxes but poor schools, roads and an unfriendly business climate, New York City is in decline back to the 70s/80s era, Philly has Center City and the suburbs and huge areas of blight and poverty that tourists don’t see.</p>
<p>And high taxes is a relative thing. In New Jersey, taxes are astronomical so almost everywhere else has low taxes from that perspective. In fact, many in the middle class in New Jersey are destined to leave New Jersey due to the taxes. I know personal financial planners that often advise middle class retires to leave to stretch their retirement incomes.</p>
<p>No one is making you stay in New Jersey.</p>
<p>Lumping all public employees together is not fair. In my surburban community of approximately 82,000 (which was rated the safest in America a couple of years ago by some random publication and criteria), our police chief earned in excess of $300,000 last year and will walk away with a six figure pension. Now I like to feel safe but I’m willing to have a few mail boxes vandalized by kids if we could cut his salary in half.</p>
<p>Also a gym teacher working in the system for “x” number of years and making six figures with a 50% pension, I have a problem with that. A civil servant at the town hall making $50,000 with a pension is perfectly acceptable.</p>
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<p>At least in one New Jersey town I know of with exceedingly high property taxes, there’s still a huge demand in the housing market. </p>
<p>My uncle and his neighbors have all been approached regularly by real estate agencies and potential buyers asking if they’re thinking of selling their homes because it’s such a nice town with one of the best public school systems in the state with a high school which sends a respectable portion of their senior class to elite/respectable colleges. </p>
<p>Last time I checked the real estate listings in the area, the values were still climbing during the worst of the recent recession. </p>
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<p>For certain civil service jobs requiring specialized skills for which the private sector will pay a decent/high premium for, $50k with pension won’t cut it. In such jobs, offering $50k with pension means the candidates with the best skills for such jobs will look elsewhere in the private/other public sector agencies leaving only those who are barely qualified and/or those who aren’t the most dedicated in the candidate pool.</p>
<p>@Sally, I know I’m not forced to stay in New Jersey. The point is that corrupt politics and high taxes are forcing out the people they most want to keep which is high earning tax payers. </p>
<p>The wealthy will live anywhere they please in the world and those living off the taxes paid by others have no incentive to leave. Articles have been written in the newspapers about the rapid flight of six figure earners from the state. I will be one of them but he timing hasn’t been good. Now with both kids in college, I’m ready to look at options outside of NJ. I can move 30 minutes away to Pennsylvania without changing my job so hats an option. Who knows?</p>
<p>NJ and Pennsylvania raise the same amount of taxes from their residents in various taxes. Last I checked it was $28 billion. The difference is that while Pennsylvania receives 35% of it’s State budget from the federal government NJ only receives 14%.</p>
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<p>Businesses that avail themselves of expensive public works and infrastructure are living off the taxes paid by others. Maybe they should contribute a bit more too?</p>