Hilarious excuse why US students compare so poorly with foreigners

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<p>I’m not agreeing with the article’s main claim, nor am I complaining about the box-wrapping (or pool-pumping, for that matter) problem, specifically. Only trying to point out that there might be more to the discussion than meets the eye…elements that are actually interesting and valuable to talk about (which, IMO, “Students missed the answer because they didn’t understand the metric system,” in itself, is not). </p>

<p>I’m also not talking about the kids who are alread thinking abstractly, interpreting word problems, and getting along just fine in basic mathematics. A lot of kids aren’t at the level they should be, so there are obviously some problems. Are they problems that existed a generation ago? Are they stupid, laughable problems? Are they easily fixable? Are they culturally specific? Are they problems with teaching methods, question type, student interest, or something else? Are they specific to math, or are they broader issues? I don’t know, but they’re pretty clearly there. Take it or leave it.</p>

<p>Anyway, the point is now totally tangential.</p>

<p>@Galoisien: Hey, now…it’s not absurd to tie across both length and width with one ribbon! It’s pretty ;)</p>

<p>Well, it’s not absurd to tie across both one bow. I do that all the time.</p>

<p>It’s absurd to think you can do it by merely adding the “perimeter” of both components of the box and having a 25 cm bow – there’s bound to be some acrobatics which will require way more than that.</p>

<p>Or maybe I don’t know how to efficiently tie a box across both breadth and width. When I do it, I generally have to have some parts of the ribbon overlap.</p>

<p>In case anyone reading enjoys thinking inductively, not deductively, in other words building a case from the ground up, I offer this recollection from a First Grade faculty meeting over how we would teach “Measurement” to First and Second Grades. This was in a poor American elementary school. I will guess that as a result of the following riDICulous meeting, my students from then would not attempt that problem, or solve it wrongly, today as teenagers. I take full responsibility, too, for not simply committing hari-kari in the middle of that meeting to stop it. I wish I had Monty Python to act it out…</p>

<p>New Math Administrator: Teachers, we’re going to introduce a new curriculum in the coming year.</p>

<p>Teachers (groan): That’s the fourth one in five years.</p>

<p>NMA: Yes, but it’s better than those. And besides, I’m your new boss and your annual evaluations depend on my approval.</p>

<p>Teachers (groveling): Well, then. We’re all ears.</p>

<p>NMA: As you see, this curriculum requires a special week-long unit on measurement as arbitrary. In other words, we need to inculcate in young children the concept that units of measurement can be of any length, and regardless, we CAN MEASURE things. Whether it’s by one’s knuckle, a meter or a yardstick, things are measureable.</p>

<p>Teachers: Go on…</p>

<p>NMA: On the first day of the unit, you take your Cuisinaire Rods and have the children lay them against objects of varying lengths: a comb, a paperclip, a large book. Have them say, “The comb is two orange rods long; the paperclip just one orange rod; the large book needs three…”</p>

<p>Teachers: We’re with you…</p>

<p>NMA: Once that’s internalized they are ready, in First Grade, to be given these newly purchased rulers with checkerboards. The checker-markings happen to each be an inch long, but don’t call them “inches” yet. Just teach them to measure many things around the room, and record how many “blocks” long they are.</p>

<p>Teachers: (getting uncomfortable) Sounds like a lot of moving around…</p>

<p>NMA: I know you can handle that. You are all ACES when it comes to classroom management.</p>

<p>Teachers: Yes, we ARE!</p>

<p>NMA: Do this for a week, and then the following week you may introduce them to the concept that “inches” is a unit of measurement we use in our country. They’ll measure for a week using “inches”, and you can teach some about how 12 inches equals a foot, how the King’s foot was used to measure, and all kinds of interesting lessons about measurement you may have in your older files. We want you to integrate this concept of arbitrary measurement units into whatever you’ve already taught before becausem although I’m the New Math Administrator, I don’t want you to hate me and have me thrown out of here after 1 year, like the last 3 Administrators who made you change curricula upon their arrival.</p>

<p>Teachers: You’re so very right.</p>

<p>NMA: Any questions?</p>

<p>Young Teacher: But the state tests ask questions with inches AND meters on them at the end of First Grade!</p>

<p>Old Teacher: Here, you can have my mimeograph sheet from l958 with cute dolls to measure in inches… I’m retiring and have to get rid of a lot of stuff (want to buy it?)</p>

<p>NMA: Didn’t I tell you all to destroy any previous lesson taught before my arrival? How are we going to get this new curriculum to fly if you all keep confusing the children with old lessons that work?</p>

<p>Teacher: We’re so stupid in this country not to teach metric right from the outset.</p>

<p>Teacher: I hate those Canadians. I get a speeding ticket every time I drive in Ontario. Dang those kilometrrrres.</p>

<p>Teacher: Oh, knock it off. It’s easy. An “M & M” candy is one gram. Here, have one. </p>

<p>Teacher: But, NMA, if we teach metric and inches all in the first year, so the kids will do well on that ONE question on their state tests, then we lose the clarity of teaching them first: arbitrary measurement units; next: inches; last: metrics.</p>

<p>Teacher: I want my kids to do well on the test.</p>

<p>NMA: Don’t we all. So you can decide how to teach measurement within your own classrooms, since you are all old enough to be my mother, but understand that I WILL be coming around once each year to check that you’ve thrown away all the old curricula from my 3 predecessors and aren’t using any old units you may have xeroxed from them, which is a copyright violation. And remember, as I said, be creative and teach it the way that works for you, as long as the kids know all of this by the end of First Grade: Arbitrary Measurement as a concept; how to calculate in inches, and how to calculate in metrics. </p>

<p>See you next time. Our next Professional Development day, we’ll all workshop to align the new curriculum to state standards.</p>

<p>Teachers: We did that last year, and the year before…</p>

<p>NMA: Yes, but now we have a new currriculum so we have to redo all of that. Bye.</p>

<p>Also I don’t seem to be familiar with this “two pipes into a pool” problem on the primary level. As fast as I recall, those tend to be calculus-type problems (unless you’re telling me that their rates are constant, in which then it’s almost pointless to have two pipes).</p>

<p>^haha, the rates were constant, but different (one pumping 4 litters/min, the other 6 litters/min, for example). The point of having 2 pipes was mostly to make it harder on the 4th graders to solve it… But I sure think there was much much lower % of kids who would not have been able to solve the “ribbon problem” even in our 4th grade, let alone in HS…</p>

<p>the question should have read</p>

<p>What is the MINIMUM length of ribbon needed to wrap the box with ribbon wrapped on all four sides, so that you have 25cm left</p>

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<p>And this problem is more relevant to kids in Singapore or Russia???</p>

<p>P3T, I swear you must have been at my kid’s elementary schools. I know they measured things in terms of paperclips. “Oh look! My notebook is 29 paperclips long!” :rolleyes:</p>

<p>Cgm, I thought the same thing when I was solving that problem! </p>

<p>The thing I loathe most about our state’s math test — the multiple choice answers are often “fuzzy” & the students are to pick the BEST answer. I recall a meeting when my D was in elementary school. Parents were being given examples of the questions on our 4th graders’ state test. I almost blew a gasket. The questions were ridiculous, with no clear & concise numerical answer. I came away with the distinct feeling that the test was written by people who never did well in math & wanted to make sure kids could do well even if they weren’t good in math. Sigh. When my S went to parochial middle school, he had so much ground to make up.</p>

<p>As for the pool-filling problem, I can’t even imagine giving that problem to the vast majority of students at our high school. They would read it & laugh, then tell me that it’s stupid & they can’t do it. THERE — we have now established that they can’t connect with it, thus it can be stated that the reason they can’t do it is that they are unable to connect with it. Yeah, that’s it.</p>

<p>Mathmom, I had to lead a lesson on measurement with various items just a couple weeks ago while subbing. I kept thinking, “Why not just use the ruler?”</p>

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In our state the math “achievement” tests require kids to write detailed explanations how they arrived at their solution. My son, who was always exceptionally good at math, could never get high scores on those tests. The answers were so obvious to him, he just could not see what is there to explain…</p>

<p>If our “ribbon question” was worded the way CGM proposed, it would not need the picture, and would actually require some thinking (which, I guess, is too much to ask from our HS seniors…). The way it was stated on the test, with the diagram, all it required was adding correctly some 2-digit numbers, a skill that should have been learned by the end of second grade.</p>

<p>I think that this is all sort of ridiculous. Math isn’t hard. I recognize that people have trouble with math (I’d probably include myself in that group). The way I learned addition in 1st grade we were given a group of objects and then another group of objects and asked how many objects we would end up with if we combined the two groups. While questions like the one the OP gave are kind of difficult (without the diagram, I was not sure how I was supposed to tie the bow), for the large part, math is a large amount of common sense until the Algebra 2 level or so.</p>

<p>The blame lies with the education system of this country. It spends too much time keeping up students’s self esteems and not enough actually teaching. One of the main failings is the complete and utter lack of attention paid to facts. “Fuzzy math” is a terrible thing. If I were an accountant and I “fuzzy math-ed”, I would get fired. While I am all for giving students points for doing the problem correctly but somehow ending up with an incorrect answer, the focus should be on correct answers. I do however believe that the focus should also be put on the “right” process. </p>

<p>We need to focus on causes in history. None of this “the Depression happened” stuff. I need to know why it happened. Also, in a contradictory way, we need to learn facts. I know too many people who can’t name more than ten US presidents. This is basic knowledge! </p>

<p>I hate education systems…</p>

<p>Well in first grade, I remember wondering, “how did they make the first ruler?”</p>

<p>and you hear the stories that it is based on the elbow to end of the fingers of some king or other</p>

<p>and way is it based on 12 instead of 10? 12 is jsut a stupid base of measure and creates so much more work than a measuring system based on 10…</p>

<p>There are a couple more problems with this test. First, we assume all students in the US try their best on this test and fail anyway. So many students have to take standardized tests that they just fill in all the C bubbles on a test and then smile contentedly for the rest of it. </p>

<p>Second, If I took a math test that was largely a test of arithmetic competence, I would most likely fail as compared to a calculus test. I could derive for you the taylor series representing the function ln(x^2+7), but would most likely make a string of mistakes in this test. </p>

<p>Also this test does not make a difference between arithmetic mistakes, which for the most part are trivial and algebraic ones which actually test competency with math and your ability to understand it.</p>

<p>smilodon, true for some part but students in different countries face the exact same problems. They too have to pay attention not to make arithmetic errors, and they too may not be too motivated to do well on the test. Motivation might be a cultural issue, but arithmetic is not.</p>

<p>I have to admit that I don’t know too much about the TIMSS (I am more familiar with PISA) but I highly doubt that most of the 12th grade questions are as simple as this one.</p>

<p>Arithmetic mistakes can be a very big problem in real life. In fact, the majority of regular folks who use math in everyday life must be very careful to avoid arithmetic mistakes. It costs money when checking/debit accounts are overdrawn, it costs money when the wrong amount of some item is ordered (eg, wallpaper, carpet, paint), it costs money when custom ordered blinds don’t fit the window, etc. Knowing how to do such simple problems as the one in the OP’s post is actually “stuff you can really use.”</p>

<p>I often hear, “I don’t need to know this stuff. I can just use a calculator.” Sure, you could use a calculator … but first, you have to know what numbers to use & what to do with them. In addition, you have to have some clue as to whether or not the final answer makes sense. I have seen kids punch numbers incorrectly into a calculator & have no idea that the answer they got cannot possibly be correct. Number sense may not “feel” important or relevant to the average kid, but it IS.</p>

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<p>The 12th grade TIMSS questions tested 7th grade topics.</p>

<p>“…the TIMSS general tests for secondary school seniors are essentially literacy tests, not examinations on advanced knowledge. The mathematics topics were similar to topics covered by the seventh grade in most countries, and the science topics generally were covered by the ninth grade. High school seniors all should have been exposed to the material.”</p>

<p>From the paragraph starting with …Several other factors.
[Global</a> Perspectives for Local Action: Using TIMSS to Improve U.S. Mathematics and Science Education](<a href=“http://books.nap.edu/openbook.php?record_id=9605&page=83]Global”>6 Frequently Asked Questions About TIMSS | Global Perspectives for Local Action: Using TIMSS to Improve U.S. Mathematics and Science Education | The National Academies Press)</p>

<p>Lol, that might be one reason why some European countries chose not to participate in the TIMSS anymore. I vote for PISA.</p>

<p>On the other hand, it is sad if high school seniors are unable or unwilling to do simple arithmetic.</p>

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It’s not necessarily unable or unwilling, if you are good at math you get numb after a certain number of these easy problems. Mathson got a 5 on the Calc BC, qualified for AIME, got an 800 on the Math SAT2, but he never managed to get an 800 on the Math SAT1 because he missed problems that any fourth grader ought to be able to do. In fact he did things exactly like what I did, carelessly left out one step. </p>

<p>That said, there’s no excuse for Americans overall to do so poorly on these tests compared to kids from other countries.</p>