<p>"The question is, do we really have fewer of these “born scientists”, or does it only seem that we have fewer because research programs have grown so large in the past few decades that we can’t fill them with home grown students? "</p>
<p>I think that 300-million USA has more than enough human potential to feel all research programs, easily. “Born scientists” are not that rare.</p>
<p>I see many HS kids who have potential, knowledge, and enthusiasm. However, at the time of grad school application, the pool of potential scientists is very thin. I think, something is wrong with undergrad admission criteria.</p>
<p>The best ballet dancers are, historically, from Russia. They don’t study in college … I looked at the Bolshoi theater website, they are dancing! </p>
<p>Why do you need college to dance ballet? Could anyone tell me this? By the time you finish college (25?) it is too late to start a career of a ballet dancer. Most dancers in Bolshoi are on stage since they are teenagers. Am I missing something?</p>
<p>A ballet dancer may have bad SATs because she only took the test once and had little preparation for it, unlike the “geek” types you see on this site who study for years, take bazillions of practice tests, have private tutoring, and then take and retake the test until they get a perfect score. Does that really show superior ability on the part of the geek?</p>
<p>Also, for what it’s worth, I know a student at a state flagship honors program who is a double major in physics and ballet. She has received several science scholarships and contributed on multiple research projects in physics. I have no idea what her SATs were but I seriously doubt she could have put in “geek”-level time preparing.</p>
<p>I don’t understand why the potential scientist who got rejected by MIT doesn’t just go and pursue science at Michigan (or wherever he winds up). You seem to be making this assumption that if they can’t pursue science at the tippy-top-of-their-choice, it’s all over for them. That’s an odd assumption and I question it.</p>
<p>"where do the geeks GO? They wind up somewhere. " </p>
<p>Good question. I don’t know. I feel bad, that these kids couldn’t find path to colleges that need them. I feel bad for colleges, that have to import Asian students, instead of grooming their own.</p>
<p>To forcefully expose all those socially awkward, lab rat geeks who never venture outside of their hovels to culture whether they like it or not…or…to have departments with employees who would have no where else to go? ;)</p>
<p>If you’re a professor, and STEM needs geeks, and you don’t get enough of them, then go talk to the administration of your college, lay out the criteria you’d prefer to use, and offer to help solve the problem by being a resource and reviewing potential candidates.<br>
That’s what a LEADER would do.</p>
<p>But every time I propose something like this, I hear – well, they don’t really care about undergrads anyway, or they’re ohhhhh soooooooo busy (the typical academics-think-they’re-busier-than-everyone-else garbage), or some excuse to cover up for the fact that they just don’t have the skills to be able to present a case well to the administration. Well, then, stew in your disappointment and buck up, I suppose. I don’t know what else to tell you. Waiting passively around for a change ain’t gonna cut in. I know that even though I didn’t get a perfect score on my math SAT.</p>
<p>californiaaa, you are correct about dancers at the highest level. They are at Bolshoi or Mariinsky or some of the other leading companies in Europe or the U.S.</p>
<p>But there are ballet companies in pretty much every U.S. city, and ballet dancers often go on to dance in contemporary/modern companies as well. A young person whose identity is wrapped up in her ballet experience is unlikely to want to stop dancing just because she isn’t the next Margot Fonteyn.</p>
<p>The more I read drivel like this, the happier I am that I attended a top university that values both the arts / humanities (including performing arts) and the sciences. And the gladder I am that I at least try to be reasonably well-rounded in life. Aren’t you people ever ashamed of not having any interest in the arts / humanities? I would be mortified.</p>
<p>A ballet dancer may have bad SATs because she only took the test once and had little preparation for it, unlike the “geek” types you see on this site who study for years, take bazillions of practice tests, have private tutoring, and then take and retake the test until they get a perfect score. </p>
<p>Exactly. This is exactly the student that I need in the lab. "study for years, take bazillions of practice tests, have private tutoring, and then take and retake the test until they get a perfect score. ". </p>
<p>This is exactly the way, experiments are done in the lab. “study for years, take bazillions of tests, find a mentor that suits you, and then take, modify, and retake the experiment until it works”. </p>
<p>Yes, nothing is wrong with a Physics major that dances at a professional level. However, if professional dancer doesn’t have time to devote herself to the lab work … I would prefer to hire someone else.</p>
<p>This to me is the most head-scratching aspect of this whole subject. Here we have these alleged academic rock stars, whose raw (and proven) potential is astronomical, and yet they can ONLY be successful in the right environment. They are not adaptable at all. This is actually the same thing I pick up on this site from every parent who complains that Susy won’t thrive unless conditions are absolutely perfect (in other words, she would just wither up at Michigan State or Furman or St. Mary’s). Special snowflakes = fragile flowers.</p>
<p>There are approximately 3,000 four-year colleges in the US, all with STEM programs (but not necessarily engineering). There are plenty of STEM grads. Moving the major boxes around won’t change the number of grads – if HYPS focused on more science majors, those colleges down the food chain would have more lit/hume majors. Thus, I think you are jumping to the wrong conclusion; it’s not the fault of admissions that STEM courses purposely flunk kids out with strict curves (particularly in comparison to lit/hume courses, where the average grade is higher). It is not the fault of adcoms when, a fifth of the matriculating Frosh are pre-health, but end up not even in a STEM major.</p>
<p>Yes, I understand why colleges want to have a ballet department. Easy money for colleges, nice photo ops.</p>
<p>I understand why kids want to study ballet.</p>
<p>I don’t understand why parents pay $30K+ per year to get college education in ballet … instead of signing kids to perform, learn, get experience, salary, build your name, etc. </p>
<p>The professional life of a ballet dancer is very short. Why spent the most productive years in college, anyway?</p>
<p>Well, if you’ve been following the “gifted and talented” thread, there is a fair amount of garbage associated with being a an academic superstar and trying to navigate through the public school system. So probably they’ve already put up with a lot before they even apply to college. </p>
<p>It’s a little like the plot in a zombie movie. You’re trying to find your way while avoiding a bunch of zombies staggering around that would love nothing more than to eat your brain. Then, thank God, you successfully get to the police department and get to the sheriff’s office. But he swivels around his chair, and he’s a zombie too!</p>
<p>"Aren’t you people ever ashamed of not having any interest in the arts / humanities? I would be mortified. "</p>
<p>Actually, I love ballet, and I’ve seen all Bolshoi performances that they ever brought to US. I still don’t understand, why college needs a ballet department.</p>
<p>College - is not a universe for me. If I want to eat, I’ll go to a restaurant. If I want to see ballet - I’ll go to a top performance (instead of half-cooked student performance, attended mainly by parents). If I want to study Chinese culture, I’ll go to China, not to the Chinese department across the campus.</p>
<p>The same goes to diversity, actually. If I need to experience diversity, I can travel …</p>
<p>"But there are ballet companies in pretty much every U.S. city, and ballet dancers often go on to dance in contemporary/modern companies as well. A young person whose identity is wrapped up in her ballet experience is unlikely to want to stop dancing just because she isn’t the next Margot Fonteyn. "</p>
<p>I agree. I still don’t understand, why pursue ballet in college. If a kids wants to make a carrier in ballet - she should dance. These are her most productive years! </p>
<p>If she wants to dance for herself, just to unwind, I also understand. However, she doesn’t need it as her college major.</p>
<p>The best teachers are in the top universities. Kids who end up at the University of Kalamazoo, for example (my respect to this place), won’t get good education in STEM. They won’t get opportunities to experience great labs, seminars, scientific meetings, etc. Choosing between a graduate from a Tokyo University and University of Kalamazoo, I have to choose an international student, because he has far better exposure to current lab techniques, etc. </p>
<p>By the time second-tier students complete their undergrads, they are well behind international competition.</p>