I know of a valedictorian of an Ivy that began attending at age 16-one of the nicest, most accomplishd people you could ever meet.
I think Ivies, like any other school, make admissions decisions on a case by case basis…just as many people make educational decisions on a case by case/year by year basis.
Circling back to the original article-doesn’t seem like that young man was worrying about missing the typical high school experience. 
What constitutes being “too adult” in one’s interest and hobbies? Also, what’s wrong with preferring piano lessons to playing in a band or orchestra or not having an interest in participating in sports?
Not everyone prefers or enjoys group activities in general or certain ones like sports, band/orchestra, or being “less adult” in one’s interest and hobbies.
Different strokes for different folks.
She was making a different point, about one family and how their kids’ activities didn’t seem to foster socialization. There’s nothing wrong with more solitary pursuits, they can define us, too. But it’s more than that, to grow. And the colleges like to see how one integrates, as well.
That just jumped up at me because from that, it seems the argument is socialization could only come from playing sports or being in group activities…even if parents/older adults force them into such activities.
It’s a mentality I am a bit wary of as it’s prevalent among a large subset of American parents IME…especially those who are sports obsessed and it can cause lasting resentment among kids who are forced by parents into sports or group activities for which they have no interest or worse…have a heavy dislike. There were some such parents in my neighborhood which didn’t help matters for the elementary school classmates who had little/no interest in sports or parent/local community approved group activities.
Several college classmates recounted experiencing exactly this which factored into their disinterest/dislike of sports and their choice of a college which didn’t emphasize sports as much as many other mainstream colleges…especially those in Div I*.
Personally, one reason why I still enjoy playing some sports(soccer, volleyball…) is precisely because I made an active choice in choosing them rather than any prompting from parents or other older adults.
IMO, it’s not too different from how some upper/upper-middle class parents force all their kids to take piano lessons even if the child concerned never expressed interest or worse…had his/her disinterest in it ignored because “it’s educational”.
Know plenty of people…including mom who decades later still remember feeling strong resentment of parents/older relatives who ignored their preferences and forced them to take/continue piano lessons even after it was obvious they had no interest or worse, developed an active dislike for them.
The Jesuits do private schools, not homeschooling. I could not homeschool my strong willed kid- he needed the socialization of the schools as well. Also- what are these parents doing besides spending so much time developing a curriculum et al? I can’t imagine writing essays graded by family, or by someone without the skills of educators. I also would have been bored out of my skull having to go through all the levels of learning required. Nor could I have set up labs or taught so many subjects as well as qualified teachers. There is a reason we have professionals do the job. Saw where a homeschooled kid had earned a large number of Boy Scout merit badges- I suspect his parents directed his activities towards those- my kid barely finished some of the Cub Scout ones because there was too much busywork- it did not capture his brain at a high enough level. Homeschooling is only for those so highly gifted that the schools can’t do it adequately. Religion is a poor excuse.
I, too, disagree that highly gifted students are not served well in our schools. Some school districts do as much as they can but it is difficult to arrange an appropriately paced curriculum for the top one percent of the kids.
I remember exposing my kids to OCW, including the very course mentioned by Prof Strang when they were quite young, but it didn’t click for any of them. Oddly enough I enjoyed it enough that I ended up viewing some 5-10 other math/phy/engg OCW courses.
@lookingforward: “Or sleepless.”
Thank goodness someone said it.
@wis75 : "I, too, disagree that highly gifted students are not served well in our schools. Some school districts do as much as they can but it is difficult to arrange an appropriately paced curriculum for the top one percent of the kids. "
I could not disagree with this more. I do not think the schools are at all designed or equipped to provide services to the highly and profoundly gifted. I think the idea is the rest of the kids will catch up to this one child who, for whatever reason, has leapfrogged beyond where he “should” be, and then the normative, undifferentiated classroom instruction will suffice for all.
Even where the thinking is that differentiated education in the same classroom will meet the needs of the highly gifted, oft-times the teachers are simply ill-trained and ill-prepared to know how to implement programs at a level and pace appropriate to where that student is, so in this regard we agree.
Many will balk at this, but I finally realized that the highly and profoundly gifted bundle that came to me had needs that were on the spectrum of a special education in its own right. And there was no school I found in the public system where we lived that was equipped to welcome and foster the kid he was
Of course, how well the available public and private schools serve the academic top 1% or 0.1% does depend on where you are and which public and private schools are available to you. However, a student like the one discussed in this thread would probably be an outlier even compared to the academic top 1% or 0.1%, so it would only be a subset of the schools that serve that group well that could come up with a meaningful academic program for such a student (and probably would include college courses).
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Also- what are these parents doing besides spending so much time developing a curriculum et al? I can’t imagine writing essays graded by family, or by someone without the skills of educators. I also would have been bored out of my skull having to go through all the levels of learning required. Nor could I have set up labs or taught so many subjects as well as qualified teachers. There is a reason we have professionals do the job.
Homeschooling is only for those so highly gifted that the schools can’t do it adequately. Religion is a poor excuse.
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@wis75 Boy, could I have written this post a year ago. I simply didn’t understand how homeschooling worked. Then I found myself in a situation where I had to pull my son out of a terrible school environment. I have, so far, spent most of this year remediating language arts. The, so called, experts couldn’t get it right. But my son has gone from a miserable and sad kid with no self confidence to someone who is beginning to get excited about learning again. He is in 8th grade and has now asked to homeschool through high school. He is much happier. He has severe ADHD and dysgraphia and is finally catching up in writing! Yay!! We have been able to stop his medication, as well. We replaced drugs with a trampoline.
So how do I do it without experts? There are many ways. Math is done online with a company called Thinkwell. They have math from 6th grade to AP calc. Science is through a coop in a small group of about 7 kids. The teacher is a certified teacher who does homeschool classes instead. For social studies and language arts I use a homeschool curriculum called Oak Meadow. I supplement with a grammar book and some of my own assignments as I see fit. I don’t sit around planning lessons! My son takes at classes at an art studio weekly. It is a class just for homeschoolers. PE is figure skating (working on Axel). When my son gets older we will start adding duel enrollment at the local community college, its free!
@wis75 Since you know you are not capable of teaching your child, not homeschooling was an excellent decision. But, just bc you can’t, don’t project your abilities, or lack thereof, on to everyone else. Homeschooling is definitely not for everyone.
Your claim of needing professionals to teach the courses you describe is false and simply your opinion. If you were correct, homeschoolers would not be succeeding at the collegiate level to the degree that they are and colleges would be leery of accepting them. Since homeschoolers are found on most college campuses, obviously colleges do not share your opinion. (And considering the low percentages of homeschooling and gifted, it is unlikely that their success is strictly due to all of them being gifted.)
Fwiw, your argument against homeschooling for religious reasons was that it demonstrated the inability to defend their beliefs against opposing opinions. Obviously the Jesuits teach at private schools, but they equally obviously integrate faith into their teaching and those who embrace Jesuits schools do not chose them bc their beliefs are indefensible and they are afraid of defending their beliefs. The same reasons that parents choose private religious schools over secular gov’t schools are many of the same reasons for homeschooling.
Don’t like homeschooling all you want. That is your perogative. But families like mine across the country daily prove that homeschooling does work and it does provide kids with solid academic backgrounds. I am not an expert in any subject, but I am an expert at knowing my children. That combined with the appropriate resources have enabled my kids to excel academically. And our family is not an anomaly amg homeschoolers.
Do all homeschoolers have high academic standards? No. But there are plenty of kids across the country graduating at a remedial level or non-college prep level.
You do realize that you’re on CC, don’t you? 
What I meant about them ring too adult was they never seemed to do kid things or teen tbings. They went right from Disney to Star wars and Doctor Who and Supernatural and CSI type shows. My kinds like some of that, but they also like habging out with girlfriends and even boyfriends, reading junk magazines, listening to teen mjsic.
I just never see them being kids. There are no plans for them to go to college away from home. In some ways they are treated as adults and in others they are not prepared to do anything on their own. No drivers licenses, no jobs (twins will be 18 in dec, older girl is 20). Nothing at all wrong with piano, but there is little to no interaction with other kids. I don’t think they know how to ride bikes, I’ve never seen them just go outside and play with a ball or draw with chalk or use a hula hoop. They’d rather stay inside and talk to adults.
There is just such a difference between them and my kids who were all in the same social group as toddlers. Mine went to traditional schools, public and private, they have each other for friendship but look for individual friends too. They go to colleges 2000 miles apart and talk more now than when their rooms were 2 feet apart. All these kids had medical needs at birth, and we all took different routes. My kids were in activities like swimming, day care, music, playing outside, riding bikes, girl scouts. It seems to have worked for us. My kids thrived with structure and would not have done well with aN unstructured day. I know homeschooling can be very structured, but in my friend’s case wasnt. At all.
I enjoy the parents very much, and I’m not really against homeschooling (I do not like it when home schoolers go to schools for just one class or sports; I think students should be in or out, not just picking what they want to do and not having to comply with all school rules), but don’t think it was right for these kids. I don’t think if they’d gone to public schools they would have been gymnasts or student council presidents, but I think they’d have joined a few clubs and maybe joined the band, or the sci-fi club and discussed books with other kids. I also think they’d know how to ride a bike or jump rope or ride a skateboard. Alas, not my kids, not my choice.
@twoinanddone what is the problem with homeschoolers attending one class or participating in sports? What difference does it make to you and your children? Homeschooling parents pay taxes. Why should their children not be allowed to utilize the local school for part of their day? Why should you care?
Star Wars and Dr. Who are “too adult”??? That’s odd as many of my friends and I saw our first Star Wars movies when we were little kids. I believe I was somewhere between first and 4th grade when I saw Return of the Jedi and Empire Strikes Back. It was a major part of childhoods for many kids in my elementary school and generation. And some of the older ones who are now parents have no issues introducing those movies to their own kids at 8 years of age or younger…sometimes much younger.
While I never got into Dr. Who, it was a common staple of my HS classmates’ childhood and teen years. If anything, I was actually considered one of the odd teens out at my HS for not having seen/been seriously into Dr. Who. And many parents or older siblings have no issues introducing their teenage or younger kids/siblings to the original and new Dr. Who serious nowadays.
As for reading junk magazines or hanging out with GF/BFs…different strokes for different folks. Not every child/teen are into those things while in that age range…and that’s ok.
And teen music? What constitutes teen music?? That is unless you really mean pop music meant for the teeny bopper set.
Sorry, I’ve known more than a fair number of teens and even younger kids who were not only indifferent, but absolutely detested the prevailing pop music many of their peers loved. And I’m not just talking about stereotypical “too serious” child/teen who’d only listen to classical music…but many friends who gotten straight into “adult music” like punk/pop punk, heavy metal(not the pop-oriented crappy cheesy love ballads common in the '80s), R & B, underground hip-hop/rap*, etc.
As far as they were concerned, if teen music is defined as pop music…especially ones meant for the teeny bopper set, they’d reject it simply on the grounds that it’s bad music to their ears and they’d rather listen to the more “adult” forms of music as it better suits their personal preferences.
On the flipside, I also know many adults who have either never outgrown listening to pop music mainly targeting the teeny bopper set or gotten into music popular with their kids/grandkids/great-grandkids.**
** Yep, there are 30, 40, and 50+ somethings who actually look forward to and enjoy music mainly targeted to the teeny bopper set. One example is a former supervisor/friend in his 50s who loved the Spice Girls from the time they were hugely popular in the late '90s to the present and annoyed me with his incessant playing of their songs. Also, know of several 40-50+ something parents/grandparents/great-grandparents who never tired of playing Aqua’s Barbie Girl back in the '90s/early '00s even when their pre-teen/teen kids/grandkids/great-grandkids weren’t around.
twoinanddone,
One of the problems is that you’re defining homeschooling by the one family you know. I definitely don’t define public school kids by the family next door or the one down the street. I could draw a lot of false conclusions. The family next door, for instance, spends a lot of time indoors watching loud movies. They don’t seem to go out much after school, and play all the time in their backyard. They don’t seem to have a social life beyond that.
Do you see what I’m getting at? Of course I know public and private schooled kids are varied and aren’t all like that, just as I know homeschoolers are varied. Homeschool families are real people, warts and all, just as the non-homeschooling families in my neighborhood are real families, warts and all.
Re. going away or not going away to college: my oldest homeschooled son is 3000+ miles away. My next son will be going 2600 miles away. I think what we’re trying to do in this thread is broaden awareness of the diversity and nature of homeschooling.
And as far as the social life of homeschoolers vs. public/private-again, as diverse as humanity itself. My oldest is a natural leader and extrovert with tons of energy, and spent most of his “home” schooling years involved with public and private school kids in his activities because that was what he wanted/needed. (ie. Math circle, physics competitions, chess team/club, AAU sports, professional music gigs, working as a tutor at a well-known business) My son helps those kids from public and private schools that are social introverts come out of their shells a bit at MIT.
Re. curriculum and teaching, I readily admit, even with two teaching credentials, I am in no way equipped to teach high school/college subjects other than dance and ASL. I outsourced everything using multiple affordable resources: community college, free audited college classes, online “schools”, local homeschool co-op, local homeschool teacher, self-study, Coursera and others like it, and so on. I enjoy working with my kids figuring out what they want/need to learn and finding resources.
Sometimes, in discussions about homeschooling, there is a tendency to pick on on the shortcomings of public schools while overlooking the strengths. It’s easy to forget that public schools also have success stories, some of them as amazing as the one in the original post on this thread. It’s also easy to overlook that the majority of us in this country were educated at public schools (or private schools), and we are productive, law-abiding citizens, considered successful in our own way. Schools work for the vast majority of the population.
American public schools saved me, and put me on the path out of poverty. I attended them from kindergarten all the way through college. My kids have likewise also benefited from excellent, rigorous public schools that not only taught them facts about the world, but also the ways of the world – in a manner that I am unable to duplicate at home. Even the trials and tribulations they go through have been valuable life lessons. My children are going through the normal teenage drama as I write. I forget how awful high school is until I’m reminded that I went through it, and I survived and was better for it. So will they.
My kids are not special-needs or Einstein-level geniuses so public schools have been a gift to us. I do not wish for more.
Yep, home schooled kids can do all those things, but these don’t. Their mother is actually very social, extremely intelligent, takes them to a lot of homeschool activities and events, but all three girls are very withdrawn, don’t participate in the social part of the groups except to talk to adults. One of my kids would still be clutching my leg and not talking to anyone at social events if she hadn’t been forced to go to day care and school. She’d have been one happy girl to have stayed on my lap for 18 years if that had been an option. She liked it when we stayed home and actually would have liked it if I’d have made her sister move out, leaving just us to sit in the living room and have the pizza man bring us food. That was her safe and happy zone, but I forced her to see there was more to life.
Other homeschoolers I know didn’t participate in any homeschool co-op groups, just did all academics at home by themselves until high school. Very different kids, very different outcome. I’m not anti homeschooling, but just like public school doesn’t work for everyone, neither does homeschooling.
These particular kids would have been better, IMO, if they’d had more peer roll models, and yes forced to do a few public school things lIke gym class and group projects. What do I mean by better? Happier, able to hold a job, able to make decisions they’ll need to make in life like how to pay bills or grocery shop or talk to a neighbor when standing in the driveway. Able to go to college and live in a dorm (you wouldnt want one of these kids as a freshman roommmate) even if they chose not to. It’s okay to choose not to do something, but being unable to participate because you dont know how to is sad. I think I’m the best roll model for my kids and they should listen to me and learn from me (okay, worship me and want to be just like me), but I also thing they need to have other opinions, see if another view might appeal. What do other 9 year olds think about a movie, or a song not just what does my mother think or father think or their 45 year old friends think. Don’t like Hannah Montana or boy bands? Great, but make it a choice, not a never explored default and you just listen to what your parents listen to.
I’m not explaining it well, but if you met these kids, you’d not think they were 18 and 20, but probably about 25 or even older in their speech, looks, dress, interests, yet you’d know something was wrong about that too. Their perspective would not be that of a 25 year old, but in some ways that of 10 year old, having learned to walk before they could crawl… Something is just off. They missed being kids. I admit I’m a traditionalist and don’t think kids should be treated as mini adults. I wanted my kids to call teachers Mr. and Mrs. and hold a line of respect for elders. I was not looking for them to be pals with their teachers, scout leader, tutors, parents’ friends. I’m a benevolent dictator in my home, but I’m still in charge and make the final decisions because my kids are kids.
@sbjdorlo I wish you lived near me. We are going to be adding in ASL next year for 9th grade and I have just started the search for a class. Any suggestions?
@PragmaticMom for many of us, homeschool is one of many options. I have one child in traditional public school and the other was pulled out for homeschooling. You do what is best for the child. Some families follow the child’s lead, as long as the child is happy and successful homeschooling, the family homeschools. If a child requests to try public or private school, many families I know will allow the child to attend. Some parents will homeschool early grades only, and switch to traditional school at middle or high school. Others (us) pull children out later because things are going wrong. Traditional school works well for most students but homeschool, like early college, special ed, acceleration, religious private schools, is simply another option. Not better or worse for all, but better or worse for a specific child or family.
Twoin- with all due respect, you are only seeing one piece of the puzzle on your neighbors. You may not realize that the girls have significant medical or neurological needs- such that the level of functioning you see is miraculous given their challenges. These may have been the kids we read about who get bounced from school to school when the administration can’t figure out how to comply with the law… and it’s too costly to actually try and address their issues. I have a sibling who teaches special needs kids in a private school and the stories she tells about 9 and 10 year old kids who have been in five and six schools- none of which were willing or able to provide what their IEP required- it’s really sad.
So sure- decide that they’d have been better off in public school. Maybe what you are seeing is an absolute success story- kids who would have been marginalized in a classroom who can now hold an adult conversation, pursue their own interests (not everyone wants to join a sports team) and realize their own potential.
There are lots of people in the world who “miss being kids”. Sometimes it’s due to illness or disability, or a siblings illness or disability. Sometimes it’s because a parent is neglectful or narcissistic. Your neighbors sound like a mighty success story to me- many of the people in society who didn’t get to be kids are in jail or are making crystal meth in mom’s garage.