<p>“I think the idea that you can’t back out of an accepted job offer is preposterous. The company can fire you before you even start the job (because of financial issues at the company, or for any other reason they feel like), so equally, you can quit any time you want. It’s simply not dishonorable, and has never been dishonorable, to look for another job when you have a job”</p>
<p>Totally agree with cf. Ridiculous. Honor code, what is this a military academy, where they signed on the dotted line and can be kicked out for an honor code violation? It is none of the college’s business if this happens. Sure, they may want kids to keep the job offers for their on campus recruitments, but I can’t see any way they can enforce that. I’m sure the company would rather the student go elsewhere than spend their time and money training them, and THEN they leave.</p>
<p>I was hired and spent 10 days in training for an airline, and then quit to go to my current employer. I hated the culture of the first company, and it was twenty steps down from the second employer. The first airline went bankrupt a couple years later, and my current employer is prosperous and I’ve been there for twenty years. I doubt it will ever go bankrupt. Had I some silly idea about not quitting one job for a far better one, I would have been in a world of hurt. I’m sure the original company would rather me quit early than spend tens of thousands of dollars training me…and then quit.</p>
<p>" And if you find an employment opportunity outside CR, good luck getting recommendations from your profs if you burned the original CR job."</p>
<p>??? </p>
<p>who gets LORs for jobs? My kids went directly to grad/med school so maybe I’m naive about that. </p>
<p>And even if they’re needed, a student would have gotten those LORs for all the apps before an offer came thru. So, if another offer is made, the LORs were long received (which is why the offer was made). </p>
<p>And what about the kids who are applying to grad school AND applying for jobs - in case they don’t get into grad school. Are they not allowed to turn down the job if they find out that they got into grad/med school? </p>
<p>“If the student takes this approach, he/she needs to bring a copy of the college’s honor code and when asking, ask the head of the honor board to point to the specific parts of the honor code pertaining to this very situation.”</p>
<p>Agreed. Otherwise the answer may just be arbitrary. </p>
<p>While I agree this is an odd ridiculous application of the honor code, honor codes aren’t exclusive to the military academies. </p>
<p>Colleges like the one I attended also had honor codes where we had to sign on the dotted line and could potentially be kicked out if there was a violation. It also extends to being culpable not only for cheating, but also knowing about it and not telling the faculty/college authorities about it in a timely manner. </p>
<p>However, in practice, there is probably more flexibility for punishments short of expulsion at colleges like mine than practiced at the Federal Service Academies. </p>
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<p>Plenty of students get LORs for jobs, especially those who may have little/no prior work experience or the professor happens to be highly influential in a given career field a student is hoping to enter. </p>
<p>YMMV, however as I didn’t need them when I applied for my first jobs. I used references from employers from part-time and summer jobs. </p>
At my kid’s school, companies have to sign an agreement before they could recruit on campus. The agreement has stipulations about when companies could invite students off campus for recruiting, how long they must give students to decide…If they violate any of those rules then they were banned from recruiting on campus.</p>
<p>Likewise, students are required to sign an agreement before they could use campus recruiting. If they should violate those rules then they would also be banned from using CR.</p>
<p>Few years ago when D1 was interviewing for jobs, one finance firm jumped the gun by inviting their favorites to NYC for a weekend of wine and dine. D1 accepted the offer without giving it much thought. She was promptly notified by CR not to accept the offer and the company was put on notice.</p>
<p>I believe the agreement is the same for all Ivies and some other schools have also adopted those rules. The rules are there protect students as well as companies. CR wants to make sure students are not pressured to take an offer before all offers are in. They also want to make sure companies have an opportunity to interview all (qualified) students before their competitors snatched them up.</p>
<p>I am not sure if CR could claim a student is violating honor code by backing out of a job offer, but I understand why they want to take a hard stand. They want to make sure companies will want to come back to recruit year after year for other students. It is very easy for a company to cross a school off their recruiting list.</p>
<p>“Plenty of students get LORs for jobs, especially those who may have little/no prior work experience or the professor happens to be highly influential in a given career field a student is hoping to enter.”</p>
<p>Well even if there are some jobs that require such, a student who has already gathered his LORs for where he’s applied doesn’t have to worry about “being blacklisted” if he gets a “better offer” and takes it. Either the “better offer” has the LOR or didn’t require it…which is WHY the student has the second offer. </p>
<p>Again, I think such a policy gives the “low salary” or “less desirable” companies an upper hand. They can offer early, and then not have to worry about competing with “better offers” or worry about “better companies” poaching their new-hires. In today’s job market, a student would be afraid to turn down a less desirable offer and end up job-less.</p>
<p>If a school wants to be so controlling, then they should have some rules that protect both students and employers. Say…offers can be made between Jan and March…and students need to look over their opportunities and decide by March 31st where they’ll accept.</p>
<p>Companies spend a ridiculous amount of money to train employees. I was shocked to learn that the AT&T employee that sells phones in your local AT&T store is sent away for training that costs the company $58k. So for a rather lowish job like that to spend so much in training, makes a company really only want to hire folks that will be happy and STAY.</p>
<p>At my kid’s school, no company could have an upper hand. Doesn’t matter when they make an offer, they must give students until a certain date (say Mar 1 for winter recruiting) and minimum X number of days to decide. Most companies also come on campus around the same time to recruit.</p>
<p>One of the main goals of OCR is to match as many students with employment as possible. OP, you ask about what happens if he lands something more appropriate later and reneges on the first offer? </p>
<p>Lets turn the tables</p>
<p>; how would you feel if your child was a top contender for this more appropriate offer in question and lost the opportunity to be hired because the friend who already has a position in hand through OCR, has decided not to honor the commitment they signed with OCR and say they would take the job. How would you advise your son or daughter?</p>
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<p>It depends when they got the offer; students hired through their summer internship will have until mid november, students hired through on campus interviews for winter recruiting will have until the end of february. With the exception of non-profits, most students will have done their due diligence and will know the market rates that similar companies are paying for similar positions. As Oldfort stated, it is a two way street where the school also makes sure that the student is not pressured to take an exploding offer (where the student must accept with in a really short time frame of lose the job). If a student does have multiple offers on the table they do get a moment to decide and even negotiate their deal. However this does not seem to be the case in Op’s scenario.</p>
<p>“how would you feel if your child was a top contender for this more appropriate offer in question and lost the opportunity to be hired because the friend who already has a position in hand through OCR, has decided not to honor the commitment they signed with OCR and say they would take the job. How would you advise your son or daughter?”</p>
<p>Sybbie can you clarify?</p>
<p>Are you asking if:</p>
<p>Your child wants a job with Company A.</p>
<p>Company A offers the job to Friend.</p>
<p>Friend wants to go elsewhere?</p>
<p>or are you asking something else?</p>
<p>I know that if I wanted a job with Company A, and it was offered to Friend who really wanted to work ELSEWHERE, I’d be annoyed if friend had to take the job with Company A, preventing me from being offered the job. </p>
<p>Students have varying financial circumstances and debt burdens, so there are other ethical concerns that must be considered. Can you really blame a kid with loans for taking a job, any job, when the alternative could be default if he ends up jobless? Secondly, mom is correct that some low-paying firms offer early. My D, who is also a senior, got an offer a while ago for a position that would have required, in the words of the interviewer, “a benefactor” for the first year since the student would not earn enough to live on. She turned it down. From what I understand from my friend, the S’s offer is heavily commissions-based, which makes it a risky bet for him since he has loans. That is the reason he would want to take a better offer if he gets it, not because of greed or selfishness.</p>
<p>So in the absence of some time frame which would allow kids to consider all offers on the table, it seems this school’s policy disadvantages the lower-income students who must find work immediately.</p>
<p>I haven’t read this entire thread but I know a young man to whom this exact thing happened. He went to a very well-known, excellent university and was offered a spot in a two-year training program at a Fortune 50 company. He accepted, and then two weeks later was offered his dream job in another company. I work in HR so his mother had him call me to ask my opinion on what he should do.</p>
<p>I recommended that he politely and reluctantly back out of his first acceptance. In my experience, these things happen all the time. The first company is a huge one and, if he was going to back out, there would be another candidate eager to take his place. To decline the dream job and therefore not be able to pursue his true interest for the rest of his career is just plain wrong!</p>
<p>He was concerned about the career office’s reaction at his university, but he explained his situation politely to them, and everyone went home happy.</p>
<p>The company my Dad works for recruits on campuses all over the country and he said there is so much competition with other companies to think a student is locked in is foolish. He laughed at the thought of complaining to the school…</p>
<p>Oldfort, the student checked the career center agreement, which says he must stop interviewing once he has accepted an offer. The Honor Code is mentioned in that section of the policies.</p>
<p>I don’t think someone even needs the excuse of heavy loans or severe financial hardship to justify doing what is best for himself professionally, within certain limits. This isn’t like dumping your boy-next-door prom date when the football captain asks you a week later. The job you get after graduation can have a major impact on both your immediate life and future prospects. </p>
<p>We’re also talking about a relationship that is based, fundamentally, on mutual interest, unlike a friendship or romantic relationship. There are obligations on both sides - the employer should be providing decent working conditions and fair compensation; the employee should be doing his job to the best of his abilities, but the company will fire him if he doesn’t suit their needs, and he should feel free to pursue employment elsewhere if the company doesn’t suit his. As long as the employee, or prospective employee, is acting in good faith when he takes the job, and lets the company know as soon as his plans change, I don’t see the issue. Yes, if he’s reneging for a comparatively minor salary increase, I think that’s greedy, but if it is really a substantially better opportunity? That’s part of the business.</p>
<p>Because companies who are involved in on-campus recruiting communicate with the colleges where they recruit. </p>
<p>There is a general point to be made here. On-campus recruiting can be extraordinarily useful, particularly at certain colleges and for students in certain majors (you’ll know which ones when you look at the jobs advertised through your own college’s on-campus recruiting system). But by participating in on-campus recruiting, you’re agreeing to follow a set of rules that would not apply if you were hunting for a job in other ways. So are the companies that do the recruiting. </p>
<p>The student signed the agreement with the career center. The student will take a chance if the career center should decide to uphold the honor code. For schools without honor code, if a student should cheat on a test the consequence maybe getting an F on the test, but if there is an honor code then the student maybe expelled. Same action, different consequences. This student wouldn’t be expelled because of “employment laws” or his rights as an employee, he would be expelled for violation of honor code.</p>