Hotel on the Corner of Bitter and Sweet - June CC Book Club Selection

Parent Cafe
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<p>I really liked this book. A nice love story with real history included. I can see how the ending would be bothersome to some readers. It was the one part of the book that I questioned. I thought that Marty found Keiko way too quickly and easily. Henry made a passing comment about Marty using a computer to find her, but in 1986, personal computers with internet access and search engines weren’t common. At least it wasn’t common for me. I still enjoyed the book, despite that flaw.</p>

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I agree with ignatius. What I also found interesting was how the Japanese insisted they were American and the Chinese insisted they were Chinese. They were both saying what they thought would keep them safe. By the end of the novel Henry is also saying he is American. Through his relationship with Keiko, he was able to see that the differences between people of different ethnicities are minor. It’s also interesting that his own son, Marty, was surprised that Henry would be okay with him marrying someone who was not Chinese. They really didn’t know each other.</p>

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<p>Ignatius, very interesting. I’ve never read Shanghai Girls. I agree that Henry’s father would have had a hard time dealing with the shift in the American attitude toward China. That would not be the first time that our military and political allies flipped sides. In World War I, Italy and Japan were our Allies; in World War II, both countries were our Axis opponents. The Russian Empire was an ally in WWI, and the Soviet Union in WWII, but we all know how that turned out during the Cold War. Even beloved Great Britain, home to Will and Kate, was once our sworn enemy! :slight_smile: The revolving door doesn’t bode well for lasting world peace, does it? </p>

<p>For me, Hotel on the Corner of Bitter and Sweet brought to mind Snow Falling on Cedars by David Guterson, which is set in the same era and explores another youthful, mixed romance affected by the relocation of the Japanese community to internment camps. It’s a more complex, evocative story than Hotel on the Corner of Bitter and Sweet, and I highly recommend it. </p>

<p>Here’s some info on the internment camps for those interested: [Children</a> of the Camps | INTERNMENT HISTORY](<a href=“http://www.pbs.org/childofcamp/history/index.html]Children”>Children of the Camps | INTERNMENT HISTORY)</p>

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<p>They certainly didn’t! I suspect Henry wasn’t a great father—a good husband maybe, and a good provider, but probably not terribly involved in the upbringing of his son. But who can blame him, given from whom he learned parenting?</p>

<p>BUandBC82’s comments speak to the first discussion question:</p>

<ol>
<li>Father-son relationships are a crucial theme in the novel. Talk about some of these relationships and how they are shaped by culture and time. For example, how is the relationship between Henry and his father different from that between Henry and Marty? What accounts for the differences? 
</li>
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<p>I can’t resist alluding to one of our earlier books here. I was struck by the similarities between Henry and Marty’s relationship and Major Pettigrew’s relationship with his son Roger in Major Pettigrew’s Last Stand. Both Henry and the Major are widowers, young enough to think about romance again (each with a woman who would not be a traditionally “appropriate” mate). Both appear to be traditional men, firmly tied to the customs of their ethnic group, but in fact, each has an appealing subversive streak. Both are the products of a cold, stern (now deceased) father. Neither man understands his son, and in each story we learn via flashback that the wife was the buffer between father and son until she died of cancer. In both cases, the son brings home an “outsider” girlfriend from a different ethnic group, and the young woman turns out to be a thoughtful, caring individual who earns the respect and admiration of the older man. </p>

<p>The biggest difference is that Marty seems like a good guy, whereas Roger was a fool. Still, the struggle to communicate across the barriers of age, tradition and mourning are strikingly similar. I guess these are universal themes, but the pictures in my head as I read the book kept putting Henry, Ethel and Marty in the same house that the Major, Nancy and Roger lived in. My imagination needs a new set director. :)</p>

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<p>I also enjoyed the book – and agree that the ending wasn’t entirely satisfying. At times the story seemed almost weighed down under all the details, but at the end it’s “1, 2, 3” and Henry is knocking on Keiko’s door.</p>

<p>I also just recently read “Shanghai Girls” for my real life Book Club and agree with ignatius about the interesting overlap/dovetailing of the 2 stories. Also love your comparisons with “Major Pettigrew,” Mary13.</p>

<p>H & I have friends from our previous town in CT – the H is Japanese, born and raised in CA. His mother was “relocated” to a camp with her family as a teenager. (His father grew up in HI.) Growing up, our friend said his mother didn’t talk all that much about it, and he and his brother were raised to be “very American” – given American names, spoke only English, etc. They did eat Japanese cuisine at home, but to the “outside” they were raised as typical American boys.</p>

<p>As an aside to NewHavenCTmom – S (college '13) went to Loomis. I read (and enjoyed) almost every one of his required summer reading books!</p>

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<p>I didn’t catch that discrepancy. As I read I mentally traveled from the war years to present day. I knew that “present day” actually took place in 1986, but didn’t really stop to think about what that meant in terms of Marty finding Keiko so easily.</p>

<p>Mary 13: I too thought of Major Pettigrew and his son Roger as I read. Henry’s son Marty is so the better man, and the odds of a satisfying intergenerational life for the Lee family seems likely.</p>

<p>CBBBlinker: The sequel to Shanghai Girls, Dreams of Joy, came out the end of May. Talk about a to-be-continued ending - I would have not been happy had I read Shanghai Girls a couple years ago when I got to the end.</p>

<p>And for everyone’s listening pleasure: </p>

<p>Oscar Holden’s son Ron:
[YouTube</a> - ‪Ron Holden * Love You So (Nite Owl N-10)‬‏](<a href=“http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hr1uks5Kn-s&feature=related]YouTube”>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hr1uks5Kn-s&feature=related)</p>

<p>Oscar Holden’s daughter Grace:
[YouTube</a> - ‪Grace Holden "All I Need"‬‏](<a href=“http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xrbrv4TAkEM]YouTube”>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xrbrv4TAkEM)</p>

<p>General Oscar info:
[Holden</a>, Oscar (1887-1969) | The Black Past: Remembered and Reclaimed](<a href=“http://www.blackpast.org/?q=aaw/holden-oscar-1887-1969]Holden”>Oscar W. Holden, Sr. (1886-1969) •)</p>

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<p>Thanks, ignatius! </p>

<p>I’m ashamed to admit that I thought Oscar Holden was a fictional character until I looked him up. I did find out in the search process that the Alley Cat Strut is fictional, so don’t go looking for the 78 on eBay. :)</p>

<p>Here are two interesting interviews with Jamie Ford:</p>

<p>[Jamie</a> Ford, Author ? Official Site - Interview](<a href=“http://www.jamieford.com/interview/]Jamie”>http://www.jamieford.com/interview/)</p>

<p>[Interview</a> with Jamie Ford (Author of Hotel on the Corner of Bitter and Sweet)](<a href=“Interview with Jamie Ford - Goodreads News & Interviews”>Interview with Jamie Ford - Goodreads News & Interviews)</p>

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<p>^^^
Mary: I knew Oscar Holden existed through the acknowledgments in the book. Ford wrote: “To Grace Holden, for allowing me to channel the spirit of her father.”</p>

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<p>I don’t think so. The first mention of Ethel depicts a young Chinese girl, helping out at the front counter. </p>

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<p>I believe Ethel’s father, the postmaster, pulls the letters, but I doubt he shares that information with his daughter. The letters that make it to either Henry or Keiko - well, the postmaster father misses occasionally for one reason or another. Ethel always seems disappointed to have to tell Henry that he has no mail and sad for him. By the way, I knew that Ethel was the young mail clerk - it came as no revelation to me.</p>

<p>On the other hand, Henry’s mother definitely knows and is complicit - which begs the question (question #9 actually) of whether or not his mother can/should refuse to be a part of the deception.</p>

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<p>Enjoying this book discussion, another book I read long ago when it was originally selected. I must stop doing that!</p>

<p>Ignatius- interesting comments about Shanghai Girls (I read 1/2 of that book, couple years ago, have it on my shelf , you’ve inspired me to finish it).</p>

<p>One of memorable aspects of On the Corner of Bitter and Sweet, is the insight into the prejudices within the Asian communities.
FYI- new movie adverstised in today’s Philly Inquirer " City of Life and Death" -
Headline reads: Rape of Nanking: Utter horror. (movie gets 3 1/2 stars out of 4)
movie description- “Lu’s elaborately staged prodcution is very much an antiwar war movie”…
Rape of Nanking- 20,000-30,000 women and children believed to have been raped
Nanking, capital of China at the time- 200.,000-300,000 unarmed killed.
And, all of this happened in 6 weeks! </p>

<p>Ummmmmm I this won’t be seeing this movie even though the reviewer calls this " unsettllingly beautiful black and white account " of the nightmare that was the Rape of Nanking, and 3 1/2 stars is a high rating for this reviewer.</p>

<p>I would like to see the movie you, Mary13, linked to CHILDREN OF THE CAMP- unfortunately, Netflix and Amazon Streaming Video don’t have it available. (I love documentaries, and with my Netflix subscription have been watching tons) </p>

<p>Ig- great music links.</p>

<p>And, like many of you the father and son relationship seemed SO redundant after reading Major Pettigrew.</p>

<p>Great comparison and analysis Mary of these two relationships.
I, also, didn’t care for the ending of the book, but learned so much about the injustice of the Japanese Internment. </p>

<p>Wearing the “Chinese button”- reminded me of the Nazi’s policy that Jews had to wear a yellow star of David during WW2. Did anyone else think about the Jewish ghettos during WW2? I did, constantly. Did not realize the were interned for four years, in fairgrounds, and property confiscated, all rights terminated, no due process. Horrific. </p>

<p>This tour brings the book alive, the author takes you to the Seattle locations in the book

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<p>The difference, of course, is that the “I am Chinese” button identified the wearer as a friend, whereas the Star of David badge identified the wearer as an enemy. Henry’s Chinese button is a form of protection that saves him from a tragic fate; sadly, it was the reverse for those who wore the Star of David.</p>

<p>SJCM, after reading your comment, I did a little research on the Warsaw ghetto. Wow, the horror of that place makes the Japanese internment camps look almost comfortable in comparison. There were 400,000 Jews in the Warsaw ghetto (four times as many as in the Japanese internment camps) and here’s a glance at what they were forced to endure:</p>

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<p>I thought about the Japanese internment camps and wondered if it was a case of “there but for the grace of God go we.” That is, if historical circumstances were just slightly altered, might we Americans have subjected the Japanese to the same fate as the Jews in the Warsaw ghetto? I’d like to think not, but history has shown that it doesn’t take much to induce one race to decimate another.</p>

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<p>SJCM – thanks for the link to the Seattle book tour. Very interesting. </p>

<p>Once people were “released” from the camps, did they not go back to Seattle? If they did, why didn’t they try to reclaim their belongings stored at the Panama Hotel?</p>

<p>ignatius – I have “Dreams of Joy” on my Kindle Wish List. Hope to read it this summer, before I forget too many details from “Shanghai Girls.” :)</p>

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<p>Mary, yes, one badge defined the wearer as the “friend”- although to the white Americans boys someone to torment. </p>

<p>Mary from your link to the docu - Children of the Camp ----
about the project.
It seems impossible that America today, would “round up” Muslims, because they might be deemed “enemies”. The “internment camps” are a scar on our history, and in 1988 Congress officially apologized, and gave $20,000 to the victims. (this is from your link Mary, I’m just learning about this in detail now)</p>

<p>"These Japanese Americans, half of whom were children, were incarcerated for up to 4 years, without due process of law or any factual basis, in bleak, remote camps surrounded by barbed wire and armed guards.</p>

<p>They were forced to evacuate their homes and leave their jobs; in some cases family members were separated and put into different camps. President Roosevelt himself called the 10 facilities “concentration camps.”</p>

<p>Some Japanese Americans died in the camps due to inadequate medical care and the emotional stresses they encountered. Several were killed by military guards posted for allegedly resisting orders.</p>

<p>At the time, Executive Order 9066 was justified as a “military necessity” to protect against domestic espionage and sabotage. However, it was later documented that “our government had in its possession proof that not one Japanese American, citizen or not, had engaged in espionage, not one had committed any act of sabotage.” (Michi Weglyn, 1976)."</p>

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<p>This is a 10 year old article from the Seattle Post-Intelligencer, but it tries to address that question. </p>

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<p>Still, that doesn’t explain why more of the items weren’t claimed after the discovery in the basement gained fame. I understand why the kitchen appliances and such were ignored, but you’d think the survivors of the camps (or more likely, their grown children) would have wanted to claim family memorabilia—kimonos, tea pots, trunks stenciled with the family name, etc. </p>

<p>But perhaps they realized that the best place for those items was museums (both the one in the hotel and the traveling exhibit), as a way to educate and touch people. If the Japanese families came and took everything away, that might make it too easy for the rest of us to forget.</p>

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<p>You’re right, it does seem impossible. So have we evolved somewhat? I hope so. On the other hand, maybe we have just become more insidious. Substitute “Mexicans” for “Muslims” and Arizona’s sb1070 law looks a little scary.</p>

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<p>Since Executive Order 9066 didn’t name any nationality or ethnic group, why did the U.S. apply the order primarily to the Japanese? Was it because the Japanese looked different, whereas the Germans and Italians looked like “us”? Were we that overtly racist? Or was it because Japan attacked American soil, thus making the Japanese theoretically more “dangerous”?</p>

<p>I know that some Germans and Italians were sent to internment camps in the U.S., but (per Wikipedia) the numbers were only about 1/10th of the Japanese total. Also, the Germans and Italians who were “relocated” were usually not American citizens, unlike the Japanese internees who, like Keiko, were born and raised in the U.S., and as American as apple pie.</p>

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<p>Very much enjoyed this book! Thanks to everyone for posting links-it added so much to my understanding of the novel. I still was left wanting to know about Keiko’s life between the years of her internment and when she reappears at the end of the book.</p>

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<p>I imagine that the Japanese, though released, still felt unwelcome. Those with any family or business ties to Japan probably had mixed feelings, despite being American: the atomic bomb forced surrender on a country that had a “no surrender” warrior code. Jubilation at the end of the war came at a steeper price for some than others. Japanese heritage must have felt tattered at that time and reclaiming memories the least concern. The Panama Hotel itself had a managing company and the family running it sent to an internment camp (one of Mary’s links). Perhaps reclaiming quickly remained out of reach. </p>

<p>On a less practical side, items packed in a hurried move are sometimes left in boxes and forgotten or rather just left in their boxes to be forgotten (umm, personal experience here :P).</p>

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<p>An article about returning to one of the camps</p>

<p>[Living</a> | Return To Tule Lake – Japanese-American Internees And Their Families Make A Pilgrimage To The `No-No Camp,’ Where Loyalty And Patriotism Meant Different Things To Those Who Were There | Seattle Times Newspaper](<a href=“Page not found | The Seattle Times”>Return To Tule Lake -- Japanese-American Internees And Their Families Make A Pilgrimage To The `No-No Camp,' Where Loyalty And Patriotism Meant Different Things To Those Who Were There | The Seattle Times)</p>

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<p>I wish I could contribute my opinions on this book but unfortnatley I didnt read it! LOL</p>

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<p>Thanks, emeraldkity4—great article. It was interesting to read: “Each camp had a reputation. Those who lived at Tule Lake were rowdy, adamant about their rights and vocal about their living conditions” and “Tule Lake had the highest percentage of ‘disloyals’ at 42 percent.” The residents at Minidoka (where Keiko lives) seem more passive–more wiling to acquiesce to their fate and to show their loyalty to the U.S.</p>

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<p>Shifting for a moment from camps to characters…As much as I enjoyed Hotel on the Corner of Bitter and Sweet, I have one criticism: The voices of 12-year old Henry and 12-year old Keiko are often not authentic for their ages. It doesn’t matter whether it’s the expression of a simple idea, e.g., “I can’t take credit for it, but I’m happy to be serving something I’d actually eat too” (Henry), or a more complex one:</p>

<p>“Henry, this isn’t about us. I mean it is, but they don’t define you by the button you wear. They define you by what you do, by what your actions say about you. And coming here, despite your parents, says a lot to them—and me. And they’re Americans first. They don’t see you as the enemy. They see you as a person.” (Keiko)</p>

<p>No matter how intelligent these kids are, the pre-teen dialogue doesn’t always ring true. (I remember feeling the same way about 12-year old Paloma in The Elegance of the Hedgehog. Her words often seemed more like a channel for the author’s views than a way to reveal character.)</p>

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<p>^^^^ Yes, yes, yes, Mary13! I had the same thought about Henry & Keiko in this book – which also reminded me I felt the same way about “The E of the H.” I actually though the whole story line in “Hotel” would have “worked” better if Henry and Keiko had been several years older. I mean 12 year olds making anything resembling commitment promises? </p>

<p>ek – thanks for the link.</p>