I’m pointing out that all of these careers have ALREADY done the studies (academics in particular have been examined since many of the calendar type constraints towards tenure are extremely artificial.)
Yes, we do not live in a family friendly society. Highly educated professions- who one might think have MORE control, not less, by virtue of their training-- are hit particularly hard in their 20’s, 30’s and early 40’s.
Doctors have particular challenges. And being a healer means that your work is often dangerous, messy, personally risky.
I cannot help but reply to this thread. I and my colleagues who graduated med school in the early 2000s almost all had babies during or shortly after residency. The other smaller group had them during medical school(yes, females), and the final small group waited until after residency. I had both of mine during residency on purpose (excellent low cost medical care and we were ready at age 28 to start). Residency programs have allowed short leaves for babies for well over 20yrs. Short leaves meaning 4-6 weeks(using 2weeks of vacation and typically having some indep study obligations for 2 of those weeks if you chose over 4 weeks off). I have friends who are female (focusing on that aince we are the ones who actually have to grow the human and then recover) and in surgery, pediatrics, psychiatry, derm, obgyn, internal medicine including subspecialists. All over the country. Every single physician female that I know (all around my era or 5-6yrs younger) had our first babies between age 27 and 33 . All. This is over 30 women i can easily count. Only two chose to take more than the 4-6 weeks off in residency and hence delayed their completion. Only one decided since then that she wanted to be a SAHM. Many of us including me have chosen to be part time at some point(commonly for MDs that is still 30-38 hrs per week and still pays 150-250k depending on field, or about 25% less than FT in same field). Transitioning to PT and back to FT is accepted and doable in many areas of medicine including surgical &subspecialties, as long as one has a flexible mindset and communicates early with their group. The ones who waited until private practice to start babies got the now more typical 10-12weeks off for maternity.
Compared to med school and residency rigors, fitting in babies and “sucking up” a short maternity leave (to finish on time) is no big deal. So many women have done it, it is easy to talk to others and have a plan. I know many female lawyers and folks in other fields that report far less flexibility to have kids and not delay a career.
I chat with premeds all the time about this issue, and am a part of women in medicine advocacy that does this. Even 20yrs ago, Duke Med had easy access to talk to attendings (senior docs) and get all these family balance questions sorted. Men and women were encouraged to talk about it and ask the questions on how a family could make it work day to day, especially as many of us married other doctors or other busy people(law, big tech, corporate finance, etc).
Agreed that this is a huge issue, and one that is essentially unique to medical doctors. The training process to become a doctor is 11 years in the best case scenario, and often 15+ years. There is essentially no doctor position you can get if you leave early. And you are often hundreds of thousands of dollars in debt.
Doctorates in music do not have the ensured income of an MD, not at all, and life for musicians involves a lot of travel and instability. Residencies and fellowships tend to not allow spouses or kids. There are difficulties in every profession, even ones you might not expect.
Absolutely. Makes sense then that musicians, since they have their own unique challenges, have also commissioned studies of their own. I cheer and support them in this research:
ETA: tried to fix link, but if still not working, here is citation:
Teague, A., & Smith, G. D. (2015). Portfolio careers and work-life balance among musicians: An initial study into implications for higher music education. British Journal of Music Education , 32 (2), 177-193.
@2Devils my high school BFF also had two babies during her surgical residency in the late 1990s. It’s incredibly tough, and tough women do it all the time. Congrats to you! I am absolutely turned off by the tone of this thread with other commenters trying to one up each other. It’s mind bogglingly tough to achieve a high level of professional success and start a family simultaneously in almost every profession. Kudos to those who succeed!
Being an airline pilot is also a huge challenge for families. Even tougher for a female airline pilot. I personally know a female pilot who was never able to keep a pregnancy working around the clock. A 24/7 television career is also challenging. I left my full-time 24/7 TV job in lieu of my 24/7 pilot husband’s career when we had kids. Fortunately I was able to stay home on a pilot salary. The lucky ones have family who can help.
Indeed, by the time we had kids our kids’ grandparents were too old to help us out thus the final decision for me to leave the full-time work force. I wouldn’t trade it for the world! No regrets…I kept teaching TV part-time at a local college. Huge pay cut but fulfulling. S24 is the last of the 3 headed to college in the fall. A new world awaits!
*I have a special interest in this post as S19 is applying to med school this 2024 cycle. Very good insight.
I think Compom’s point was that the typical artistic residency program or fellowship provides a one bedroom apartment which is often inadequate for a trailing spouse (who might need to wfh) and a child- let alone more than one…
The ones that do not provide housing might provide a stipend which would cover a studio apartment, shared rental, etc. Again-not realistic for someone with a family.
Not to mention that that the sheer amount of training, lack of home balance, and lack of sleep contributes to clinical depression and many other health related issues, especially during the residency years. I knew a sergeon who didn’t even begin making making a real doctor’s salary until his firstborn was a teenager. Given he started a few years late, but the training is brutal. It’s definitely not for most people.
I think it is more difficult for women training to be doctors and in particular, surgeons, to find time to have kids and to balance work/training and home duties. There was one woman surgeon in my dad’s plastic surgery practice at a university hospital. She was also a professor at the medical school, had one child and was divorced. All the men in the practice had multiple children and most had wives who were SAHM…it makes a difference. My cousin is a hospitalist and has 3 children. She had at least one of them during her residency. Her husband is a surgeon. Her brother and his wife are both pediatric cardiology residents and have one child so far.
However, once women become attendings and/or join private practice, there seem to be opportunities for flexible schedules depending on their specialty. For example, my children’s pediatric practice had 10 female physicians and two male physicians. The men worked full time and all of the women except one, worked two days a week. I’ve encountered similar schedules in dermology and OB/GYN practices. Surgery will never afford the same flexibility; but that’s not a secret.
To be honest, I have never thought about this question, at least because I am a man. But at the same time, even if everyone who chooses medicine does not know how it will affect their personal life, they still have an idea that, unlike other people, they will have to put their personal life on hold… lets say, for later, and if a person has great ambitions and a desire for career growth, then you do more. On the one hand, this is correct, but on the other hand, people give their youth to sit in educational institutions and so on, instead of “living”