<p>One Democrat remarked that Kerry blew the 2004 election and now he’s ruining the 2006 election for Democrats. :rolleyes:</p>
<p>" “Boy, this speech could really use a swipe at our armed services”?</p>
<p>I don’t think he intended the comment, but I do think he used bad judgment in the aftermath. He wanted to show that he’s tough, he’s a man, he has ****. Didn’t work here.</p>
<p>“what people DO is more inportant that what they say, and bush talks alot but does little for our proud soilders”</p>
<p>CGM, is it ever possible for you to state, simply, that something done or said by a democrat is wrong? Just: this is not ok? Not to use it to make a whole other argument, but just to ever not be able to excuse a democrat? I know from posts on other boards that you’re smart and kind, but are you ever fair?</p>
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Frankly, yes. My experience has been that those who actually know or are related to those serving in the military are overwhelmingly Republican. </p>
<p>DMD – 49% of officers have advanced degrees. I’m fairly certain that virtually 100% have a bachelor’s degree. In searching for more info about the educational requirements to be an officer, I came across this website.</p>
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<p>Officers don’t just send their enlisted soldiers into battle. Company and field-grade officers are right along there with their NCOs and junior enlisted in the battlefield.</p>
<p>49% of officers have an ADVANCED degree. This means something above a bachelor’s. Virtually 100% have a BS/BA upon commision as an 0-1. The tiny percentage who don’t are usually prior service and have nearly all their credits completed. They will not get promoted to 0-2 if they don’t finish the BA/BS within a certain amount of time.</p>
<p>In terms of the 4.7%, this is a statistic based on entering the service. Most college graduates looking for a military career would go the OCS route rather than enlisting, although of course there are exceptions. </p>
<p>Kerry has no excuse. He is a disgrace.</p>
<p>“and this guy wants to run for president again - OMYGOD!!”</p>
<p>I’m HOPING he runs again. I’d like to see KErry, Clinton and Obama.</p>
<p>“it’s clear they’re aimed at Bush, and all it does is remind the public that we’re mired in Iraq.”</p>
<p>I also think it was clearly aimed at Bush (although I think Kerry is yet another eastern liberal who loathes the military – product of his times that he is), but what Kerry did and said afterward is causing glee on the right. That man truly is a gift that keeps on giving.</p>
<p>Want to discuss the educational background of enlisted soldiers, those out on the battlefield…not the officers?</p>
<p>BTW, Kerry will never get the nomination for Dem prez in '08.</p>
<p>Looks like 57 percent of young men and 53 percent of young women enlist in the military to further their educational opportunities (i.e. get money for college) or to get trained for a career. The desire (propensity) to join the military is low but they are persuaded by the money.</p>
<p>From the DOD. <a href=“http://www.dod.mil/execsec/adr98/apdx_g.html[/url]”>http://www.dod.mil/execsec/adr98/apdx_g.html</a> </p>
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<p>Whether from a Freudian slip or just garbled speaking, Kerry’s speech was arrogant and in poor taste for someone of his stature (i.e. a Senator). Lambasting the President in a rant like that in front of young people is just petty, election season or not. But I would like to live in a country where non-affluent young men and women have opportunities for college and career training that aren’t dependent on military service.</p>
<p>I’ll be happy to discuss education for the military as I have worked on multiple education centers at a variety of military installations. I have taught BSEP and FAST classes to soldiers/airmen/sailors needing remedial help. I have taught undergraduate classes as well as graduate courses on military bases as well. I have also been an academic advisor. I currently work for a school on a military base that offers several graduate programs. My students come from both the enlisted and officer ranks as well as the GS support.</p>
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You do. I speak from experience as a first generation American and first gen college grad who now has a son at an Ivy league school. Anyone with enough desire and aptitude can get an education in this country, through Community Colleges, trade schools, and the multitude of four year colleges. The fact that some young people choose the military as one path does not mean that it was their ONLY option. Instead of coming out of college with a huge debt, they find another way.</p>
<p>Momof2inca, I’m not trying to be difficult, but the nature of your question still seems to suggest that sub-standard young people are entering the military. Have you hung out at a mall lately? There are plenty of aimless, misdirected young people in this country who could learn a lot from military service.</p>
<p>If this is the quote, I think Kerry is being misinterpreted:</p>
<p>Quote:
The senator, who was campaigning for the Democratic gubernatorial candidate, Phil Angelides, opened with several one-liners, joking at one point that President Bush had lived in Texas but now “lives in a state of denial.”</p>
<h2>Then, Mr. Kerry said: “You know, education, if you make the most of it, you study hard, you do your homework and you make an effort to be smart, you can do well. If you dont, you get stuck in Iraq.”</h2>
<p>I take this to mean that Kerry was talking about Bush getting stuck in Iraq.
He was referring to the comment about Bush living in a “state of denial”.
If you take Kerry’s statement by itself, it sounds as if he is talking about the troops. But that would be taking the statement out of context.</p>
<p>I think Kerry is talking about Bush not doing his homework, not doing well in school and getting himself stuck in Iraq.</p>
<p>I am surprised that the media is bashing Kerry on this.
I didn’t vote for Kerry but I think he is being taken out of context.</p>
<p>Which of my words suggest to you, sjmom, that I believe “substandard” people join the military? </p>
<p>I believe it is true that low-income young people enter the military in much greater percentages than affluent men and women, and they are seeking economic opportunity that is not available (or that SEEMS to them not to be available) other than from a military enlistment. The reasons they may think that “community colleges, trade schools and the multitude of four-year colleges” are not options are varied. As you well know from having helped usher your own child into college, the application process is complicated for even one school, much less a range of them. Even community college is expensive and daunting for some students who have no parent support or who are already parents themselves. Yes anyone with enough desire and aptitude can get an education in this country, and the Dept. of Defense knows what a big carrot it has by offering scholarships.</p>
<p>Low income does NOT mean substandard so stop insinuating that is what I’m talking about. I would like poor 19-year-olds to have an easier time paying for college so that choosing the military does not seem like the only EASY or viable option for them. Cut student loan interest rates, lower the costs of public colleges, streamline application processes.</p>
<p>DadtheGlad: for us ordinary Americans out there, the nuances of relating this statement to Bush seems far-fetched. </p>
<p>Kerry should apologize for what he said. Even if he meant for it to come out differently. His sheer arrogance is what is making these military families angry - and rightly so. </p>
<p>I’m one of those. My grandfather served in the Battle of the Bulge; before joining the army, he was a Wall Street stockbroker.</p>
<p>My uncle graduated from Fordham. He was a lieutenant commander in the naval air force and led reconnaissance squads during Vietnam.</p>
<p>My father is a CPA; after college graduation, he went into the army and helped to occupy Germany after WWII</p>
<p>And my husband, who has a degree in mechanical engineering from Acadia Univeristy in Nova Scotia, is retired from the Royal Canadian Air Force.</p>
<p>Very well educated men - and let me tell you, my husband and father are fit to be tied right now about Kerry’s remarks. They have both read the transcripts. Why would they have trouble understanding what Kerry said?</p>
<p>momof2inca, it was your comments about low-income (low SES?) kids choosing the military as their only option that sounded critical to me.</p>
<p>As one of five kids who each worked to pay our own way through college (for a total of 10 degrees between us) I think that there are many ways for low income kids to pay for college. In fact, many of the most selective schools offer outstanding Financial Aid to lower income, qualified students. Since I have been through the application process with one son, including the CSS Profile, two FAFSA’s so far, and expecting to do the same for S2, I do know something about how FA works. </p>
<p>I think the many discussions on CC about FA point to the fact that middle class families often find it MORE difficult than lower income or wealthy families to pay for college. That’s not to say that middle class families don’t offer other advantages pertaining to college admissions over lower income families, but lower income kids can get significant aid. In particular, S1’s best friend had just about no help when it came to applying to colleges or paying for it. He was a scholarship student to our sons’ prep school, but is one of the brightest kids I know. He’s now a sophomore at Columbia University and has close to full tuition need-based aid.</p>
<p>if you read the prepared text of what kerry said, he messed up the punch line…OMG@@@</p>
<p>do you that are going after Kerry for this botched line defend Bush’s treatment of the vets, the lack of funding, the bad equipment, the extended tours, etc? </p>
<p>Bush talks big, but does little, that is disgraceful</p>
<p>Sjmom, my words are critical. But not of the kids choosing to enlist or serve as officers. I’m critical of the system that makes it very simple to sign the next some-odd years of your life over to the military and very difficult to sign up for college, financial aid, loans, etc… My husband and I, who each have masters degrees, filed our son’s FAFSA and Profile forms a couple of years ago. It was more complicated than filing our income taxes, which we prepare ourselves. I bet if we compared signing up for the military to filling out a FAFSA, we’d find FAFSA is a lot more difficult.</p>
<p>I’m well aware that low income kids can get significant college aid from the government or from colleges. It’s the “getting” part that is so cumbersome and complicated that they don’t even know where to start. </p>
<p>If I were in charge, I’d start with this. For every military enlistment office in every shopping center (our’s is right across from Target), I would place a college recruiting center right next door. It would be as easy to commit to a college as it would be to sign on the dotted line for a military commitment. A one-stop center. </p>
<p>I’d also cut student loan rates and reduce public college tuition, oh, and build more colleges. </p>
<p>Please stop making me out to be anti-military enlistees/officers, it’s a cheap shot and I don’t appreciate it.</p>
<p>So what, Kerry talks big and acts big? I think not.</p>
<p>I bet you expect a perfect and gleaming military, and I also bet you hate high military spending. Wait, which party is it that always wants to cut the military budget? Hmm.</p>
<p>CGM, then why are my husband and father so infuriated about what Kerry said? And from what I’m seeing and hearing, a lot of other military people are angry about this, too. </p>
<p>They’re not stupid.</p>