I agree with this entirely, except, again as just a generalization, strong STEM kids, or even kids who are just getting by in STEM, tend to be workers, and that tends to apply across the board. The mathy HS kid who wants college engineering knows he/she will have to have a strong app to get in. They may or may not be talented writers or interpreters of literature, but they more often than not do the work so they can get a decent grade in the class.
Anyway, I was looking for a reason why @neela1 's observation about their HS STEM students might be true or make sense. I agree in real life it tends to be a mixed bag ⊠of pretty much anything. And thatâs mostly my point about the dire predictions of English majors who wonât be able to feed themselves and will wind up living back at home. I think those povs are silly.
Youâve hit something that should be part of the conversation - intellectual curiosity. That is what I think it often missing. Iâm not sure how to help people become more intellectually curious, but that is the main issue (imo).
Maybe if more people believed (as I do) that you can find answers that explain the world around us within the Humanities - it would be an easier to convince others of its relevancy.
So often, I think many people think that STEM has a monopoly on helping us understand the world around us. But Humanities does this as well, though I am not sure it is always taught as such.
I also think that, by and large, our educational system doesnât do a very good job nourishing curiosity. Nor does it always help children believe that either STEM or Humanities has the ability to help them answer the questions they have when they observe the world around them. I know so many children who think that Math is magic (by which I mean makes no sense to them so they just âdo the stepsâ with no understanding)âŠwhich breaks my heart because math is so beautiful in its ability to make sense and help understand the world around us.
By the same token, I think a subject like history is often taught as a set of facts, dates and famous eventsâŠwithout connecting those ideas to how we live now, what costs and benefits choices made before us have brought to us, and how we can use that information to guide our future choices.
Itâs too bad about your Dâs experience. The world wants specialists (as evidenced by the prevailing opinions in this thread), and that is pushing the push on focus back to early childhood. Itâs true in sports too. I had a heavily recruited soccer player who was a natural in bb and was forced to pick by her sophomore year, which was considered wildly late at her (soccer) level of play.
I think we lose something with all that, but I canât really articulate well what it is.
Sometimes, itâs parents that can nurture and expand on what their kids are learning in school. Our kids saw tons of books in our home, we visited lots of history sites, art museums, natural history museums, engineering sites, etc. when our kids were growing up. Realistically, many parents canât do all of these things, sometimes for not much interest themselves, but oftentimes itâs a matter of time and money for many families.
STEM doesnât explain Nazi Germany and the Holocaust. STEM doesnât explain the genocides in Rwanda and Armenia. STEM doesnât provide a useful framework for understanding why hundreds (and probably thousands) of babies were buried in unmarked graves behind the Irish maternity homes. STEM doesnât explain why blue states have lower rates of divorce, teenage pregnancy, and it is suspected- opiate addiction.
I love the arrogance of anyone assuming that reading one book on the Civil War makes you at all on par with scholars who have spent decades reading primary documents to untangle a very complex and multi-causal conflict that LITERALLY had brothers killing each other. But the idea that the STEM folks are going to save us⊠boy, there were a LOT of chemists developing Zyklon-B and a lot of engineers figuring out the most efficient way to murder millions of people and then get their corpses out of the way for the next load.
I agree with you, we did all that too and surprise! - D20 is a Humanities subject (double) major with a minor in STEM. She has always liked both and sees how valuable and interconnected they are for her interests.
And yes, I definitely agree that it is often a matter of time and money in regards to whether other families are able to have the same breadth and depth of experiences our children have had the privilege to have.
Nor very relevant. Much of the Nazi architecture was established by humanities grads-Goering in history, Goebbels with a doctorate in Philosophy. I dont know the leaders in Ireland or Rwanda at the times in question but it is very unlikely they were solely STEM grads. Plenty of monsters in every major, sadly.
Iâm not angry at all. I survived a medical procedure recently which I would not have survived a decade ago. I drive a car which is meaningfully safer than the ones my parents drove. I go to work thanks to a series of vaccines-- I know many people who died of Covid, I had it and survived, thanks to the vaccines. I fully recognize the power of engineers, medical researchers, to make life better and safer.
But there have been posts on this thread that reading three books on the civil war is two books too many; that kids go into the humanities because they are too dumb to cut it in STEM; that the only way to have a meaningful and well paid career is to be a STEM person because humanities grads are perpetually unemployed AND under-employed.
And Iâm pointing out that a world where every smart kid studies bio or CS is likely not a world anyone of us would want to live in.
I didnât say that the Holocaust was caused by the STEM grads. My point is that studying STEM wonât give insight into it. Thatâs why you need the MUCH maligned (on CC at least) sociologists and psychologists and philosophers and historians. And add a few theologians and religion majors to better understand the Irish experience (and what we can do to prevent mass hysteria in the future.)
All the smart brains in the world developing vaccines wonât help if a substantial portion of the population refuse to get vaccinated.
Yep. Being the most advanced STEM nation on earth didnât stop Germany from doing what it did. But then again neither did all its expertise in philosophy, or religion, or music. I wish that humanities made for more humane humans, but history hasnât convinced me.
That relates to other threads about honors courses and tracking, early versus late specialization in school, etc. Many forum posters, presumably at the top of their classes and/or with kids at the top of their classes, prefer early tracking and specialization so as not to bother their kids with having to share classes with the âregularâ students.
I guess i donât see the major anti humanities stuff here that you are seeing but Iâm sure Iâve missed some of it. BIL and his wife are tenured humanities professors at a top 20 private school and both lecture internationally. They are both great but they came from backgrounds that supported their goals and they were both into their 30âs before getting their Ivy PhDâs. How much of that support is going on now ? I just donât know and tenured positions seem less available in this generation.
We absolutely still need humanities, social science,etc. scholars for sure. The funding could be more of an issue going forward. And just not the number of tenure track positions available as in the past.
You miss the point, @UCBalumnus. It isnât just that the smarter kidsâ educational needs are not being met in the mixed class. It is also the significant peer pressure to not perform so as not to " ruin the curve", to downplay oneâs intelligence, and of course, to complete everyoneâs homework for them. Girls in particular can be quite sensitive to those pressures.
You may decide those costs are worth it overall, but letâs not pretend we arent asking our gifted kids to incur them.
You should encourage her to try. Some of it may just be that the other kids in these stem ECs may themselves be socially awkward, and donât know how to be welcoming. But the shared passion is the bond, and kids donât care color and gender if the other person has the same passions.
Shared passion is not always a bond, if the environment is competitive. An example would be cutthroat pre-meds who all share a passion for medicine, but know that they have to climb over each other to achieve their goal of being among the few who can make their passion a career.
