I still look up stuff 30 plus years out of undergrad. Kids expect to know a strong base of quant intuition in their careers even in industry.
But I think if you have calc bc, you can pickup most things you need in undergrad
You quoted me, but that was not really my point at all. I did not say that the challenge that my daughter is facing is about a steep unforgiving learning curve. Nor do I think it is an issue of a steep learning curve. However, I will let it go. I actually think that reading my post might require the sort of analytical skills and knowledge that comes from studying the humanities and social sciences. 
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Stereotyping others with whom one is less familiar with is part of humanity, unfortunately. Itâs in every country and every society. Itâs bi-directional too, in almost all instances.
Some on this thread probably wonât agree, but my experience is that there is less such stereotyping in STEM than in any other areas that I can think of. Part of the reason, I suppose, is because oneâs competence in STEM is easier to demonstrate and more readily accepted. The best way to overcome and break stereotypes is always to excel in ways that contradict those stereotypes.
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That is a lovely thought that has been proven incorrect over and over and over again. Itâs the very basis of the idea of ârespectabilityâ, being âtwice as goodâ and other model minority baloney that doesnât nothing other than put those who are stereotyped in the position of spending time and energy trying to change the minds of those whose minds are fixed.
@Alqbamine32 Iâm sorry your daughter is having to deal with this at school. Iâm sure she is already quite adept on many different ways of handling this, and I am sure you and she have discussed the options she could pursue. Sending you support in her continuing to pursue her interests in ways that feed her. 
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I have been going down a different off-topic rabbit hole in my last few posts. But actually, I would love to talk about this question. How do we foster intellectual curiosity in children? Up-thread, I suggested good teachers can help and more down time and imaginative play/exploration for young children (fewer scheduled activities and fewer screens), but all of those solutions are about giving room for fairly young childrenâs natural curiosity to develop. What about in secondary school and college? What encourages intellectual curiosity in teens and young adults? Particularly intellectual curiosity about the humanities?
An (extensive) reading habit helps, without distinguishing between fiction and non fiction, humanities and non humanities etc. I mean reading a book a day type of intensity. You start seeing connections across everything you read. At some point you will naturally engage with people about what you read â this doesnât require extra parental encouragement. You can start this in very early years. Elementary or middle school.
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How early is âearlyâ? In my own case, I was terrible at math in high school and the early part of college. Even flunked Intermediate Algebra in the 11th grade. Then I took âApplied Calculusâ at a local junior college when I was in the Air Force, and it was a revelation. Instead of useless proofs and pointless letter juggling, it was the first math class I ever took that showed that math had practical uses in the real world, and I was motivated to study. Not a single proof was done in the class. I got an A, and it gave me enough confidence to become a computer science major with a minor in math and statistics when I went back to school full time.
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Meaning it can be equally interpreted to mean just about anything ? 
love it! Fair point and an unfortunate side effect of trying to write about complex issues with nuance and generosity.
But more seriously, I thought my posts on this thread have been pretty clear in their meaning and not even particularly subtle. I didnât realize there was that much room for misinterpretation until I read some responses, but perhaps Iâm wrong. In any case, any subtlety was in deference to the forumâs rules/TOS as well as a desire to have a productive, non-cantankerous discussion.
I am fine with moving on. Beebee3 is spot on when she wrote.
Beebee3 is right. This is not my first go-round with these issues. Weâll figure it out, and Iâll find ways to support this daughter in whatever passions she discovers. My daughter is more fortunate than most.
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The math super-elitism, as expressed in this and other threads, is an exclusive type of elitism. What message does it send when people say that if your parents are not flooring the math accelerator for you in elementary school, you will not amount to anything in math?
Many sports, on the other hand, are more inclusive in encouraging everyone to play, though sometimes it gets to the point that parents and kids get delusional ideas about how likely the kids are to get to the elite levels needed to be athletic recruits or professional athletes. But also note that sports is something that is widely encouraged at the non-elite level. A group of people does not have to be anywhere near NBA or college basketball level to play basketball among themselves.
Back to humanities, note that humanities are generally seen as being more accessible to the general public. Someone who decides that they are interested in Shakespeare can start reading those works. But the barrier to entry to understanding some important math discoveries can be considerably higher.
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Iâm too concerned about the abysmal levels of literacy and numeracy around the country to worry about the accelerator and if a kid hasnât taken Diff EQ by senior year of HS their career is over.
Seriously- a high percentage of HS grads in this country canât calculate a 5% sales tax for a $50 pair of sneakers and we are debating math elitism?
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Right. One of my kids took BC Calculus in high school, the other didnât take calculus at all in high school, just no interest. Both graduated with honors in engineering.
And yes, math elitism is interesting. The competitions seem very intense but many seem to be into them. Basic math skills are probably more important to the majority of the population.
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In engineering, probably not (other than perhaps high school geometry). In CS, discrete math (a typical CS major requirement) commonly has some instruction in proof techniques, as preparation for upper level CS theory courses which have proofs. Granted, they are not as difficult as some upper level math courses like real analysis, but it is not like there are no proofs there.
Yes, that is part of what I was trying to say many posts ago when I brought up the subject of perceptions of accessibility vs. inaccessibility.
To be completely fair, I have sometimes seen similar elitist behavior among teachers and students in the humanities and arts. It can be discouraging for kids who wish to enter fields like literature when insiders deliberately use arcane language as a method of gate-keeping or when professors are more interested in performing for their students rather than actually teaching them. But those sorts of behaviors seem relatively rare. For the most part, in my observation, the humanities and arts are perceived as having lower barriers to entry and more welcoming than stem fields (which is perhaps why they are labeled as less rigorous) and I think a lot of educators work hard to make them accessible. In my mind, the one of the goals of K-12 education and entry level courses in any field (humanities, social science, stem, the arts whatever) is to open doors/create opportunities for kids who are newly exploring those subjects. I believe that STEM community based organizations try to do the same thing for kids with less preparation in math and science.
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As a very poor first generation immigrant from a non-English speaking country, I had my share of being stereotyped in everyday life and more, but I wasnât thinking along those lines. I was thinking in the context of this thread, including the differences between STEM and the humanities. My own experiences and observations (admittedly limited like everyone elseâs) inform me that there is less stereotyping and such stereotyping can be more readily overcome in fields where there is more objectivity. Thatâs probably also one of the primary reasons why many more immigrants, particularly those from non-English speaking countries, chose STEM over other subjects.
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People are talented in different ways (itâs the natureâs way to ensure ultimate diversity of talents in every field, every line of work). Most of us donât need much math beyond the very basics, even in some fields that are thought to require it. I donât advocate that everyone should study math in depth. However, math truly forms the most basic foundation for all other quantitative disciplines. In-depth knowledge in and facility with math is necessary to pursue those other disciplines in depth. What I meant by âearlyâ is for those who have shown a strong interest and potential, and may pursue a career in a highly quantitative field.
Also, just like in the humanities, we shouldnât think math in terms of its pure utility career-wise. As another poster mentioned earlier, studying math helps one think about problems more logically and rigorously, even in subjects where little or no math is needed.
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I havenât taken away that message from the Pro-Early-Math posters here. The message I have taken away is that math has a lot in common with certain humanities such as dance, music, and language. If you want to be a ballerina, you need to start training young when you are still flexible. If you want to excel in music, you need to start lessons as a child. If you want to speak a foreign language without an accent, you need to start before puberty. Itâs not elitism, itâs that for certain activities there are windows of opportunity that eventually close. I am hearing these posters say that math is like a language, and to be a ânative speakerâ it is best to start as young as possible.
Iâm not sure why people accept the importance of starting young for ballet or piano or Mandarin, but not for math. Why are parents who sign their 5-year-olds up for dance (or soccer) considered to be good parents, but those who bring them to a math club considered to be problematic?
My own kids are âhumanitiesâ kids, but I have a great deal of respect for STEM accomplishments. Kids with math accomplishments really should be celebrated much more than they are.
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From my experience, I havenât found STEM fields to be more âobjectiveâ. Iâm looking at that idea historically, and historically, science has often been used to promote all kinds of subjective ideas and beliefs.
The idea there is âobjectivityâ in STEM is an erroneous one, imo.
Take for example the idea of hand faucet sensors. They were created to reduce the amount of contact anyone has to make to wash their hands in public spaces. And objectively good idea. But then, the sensor was programmed to sense a color difference between the hand being washed and the sink. It has been found that many of these faucets donât work for dark skin - the sensor cannot distinguish between lesser color differential. The science wasnât objective in this caseâŠthough I am sure no one intentionally thought - letâs make it harder for darker skinned people to be able to clean their hands. There was a huge erasure of a large swath of the public, a huge problem that supposedly âobjectiveâ science didnât even catch.
Science and STEM arenât inherently objective. They are populated with people, same as every other area of study. Letâs remember, phrenology also was considered âscienceâ.
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My kid made it through MIT as a math major despite not having been accelerated in math in middle school and early HS (he finished AP Calc as a senior). No, heâs not a Putnam winner and will never be named âprodigy of the yearâ but somehow he graduated with a high GPA from a tough university.
THATâs why folks are pushing back on the ballerina analogy. The human body develops at an idiosyncratic rate but along well defined pathways. And then comes puberty. So either adequate training has happened before then or it hasnât.
There is zero research to suggest that if you donât drill in math at at a young age, your math ability curls up and dies by the time you get to college. Yes, start young for ballet. But the notion that someone cannot achieve in math without math club is- in fact-problematic. Research suggests that competition math, math clubs, etc. are populated by a particular cohort. Which is itâs own form of gatekeeping.
How high a level in math is enough? Is it enough to be a math major, or must one also achieve something else extraordinary to âproveâ oneâs math chops? There are plenty of âmath peopleâ in the world who did not have the type of âaccelerator to the floorâ parenting thatâs usually discussed on CC.
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Apparently, some of those sensors are made by Technical Concepts, which appears to be in Layton, UT. Perhaps the relatively limited diversity there resulted in the failure to detect darker skin to be missed during testing.