<p>mike, if you look at the eventual outcome last year of all those who applied to MIT EA, the percentage of those students eventually accepted was much higher than the overall acceptance percentage (23% vs 13%). (See the [Admissions</a> Statistics](<a href=“http://www.mitadmissions.org/topics/apply/admissions_statistics/index.shtml]Admissions”>www.mitadmissions.org/topics/apply/admissions_statistics/index.shtml) page for the raw numbers.)</p>
<p>Deferred to regular action 2370
Deferred applicants admitted during regular action 295 </p>
<p>12.447%</p>
<p>that’s what I’m going off of.</p>
<p>“Hepstar…it is like you are playing armchair stats evaluator. Colleges see way way more than what you view in these profiles and “what are my chances” posts. Even then, a candidate can have ALL the right stuff and still be denied when a college has an admit rate of under 20%. Them’s the facts. Top top top kids can get denied at some of these elite colleges.”</p>
<p>Duh! Everyone knows that colleges look at more than stats. This argument still doesn’t explain why the white girl with the 2230 SAT score was rejected.
Let’s make a checklist. Colleges consider these things:</p>
<p>Academic GPA:</p>
<p>The white girl had a 4.3 GPA. She had that covered.</p>
<p>Test Scores:</p>
<p>She had a 2230, above Brown’s average, and 5’s on her AP tests.</p>
<p>EC’s (directly from NY Mag):</p>
<p>“Arts and Leisure co-editor of the newspaper and contributor to the literary magazine. Plays drums in the FMs, a band that includes her sister and brother. Percussionist for Marymount Singers. Works for the admissions office and at her parents’ law office. Gave speeches about the black-footed penguin as a docent at the New York Aquarium. Volunteers at a soup kitchen. Spokesperson for Make-A-Wish Foundation after her cancer diagnosis the summer before freshman year. Designed her own physical-therapy plan after treatment left her with acute neuropathy in both legs.”</p>
<p>The “X-factor” (what sets someone apart from other applicants):</p>
<p>She survived a battle with cancer, and still was a stellar student. She also gave back to the community with her work for Make-a-Wish. This is pretty much what is said in the article:</p>
<p>“This is a girl who has overcome serious obstacles and setbacks and still excelled in high school. She also gave back to Make-A-Wish by becoming a spokesperson; her generosity of spirit is evident.”</p>
<p>Everything up to this point shows that she was a strong applicant. She has strong academic and extra-curricular credentials. If you were on Brown’s adcoms, wouldn’t you be leaning towards admitting her? I know I would. Perhaps her chances were something like 50/50. However, if she was a URM, the chances of admittance would be much higher. It would’ve put her over the top IMO.</p>
<p>Still waiting for that 2400 URM reject to prove me wrong.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>If you know, what scholarship was that and was it one that is generally available?</p>
<p>I don’t know what scholarship it was. It wasn’t an athletic scholarship though. That’s not the point. The point is that she go the scholarship for one rweason: her URM status. Her father (who is white) admitted that AA is the reason for her free-ride. When I was discussing colleges with him, he said right to my face “it will be tougher for you in the admissions process since she (my cousin) is a minority.” Although this statement was annoying and unnecessary, it was very true.</p>
<p>
Uh, are you sure about that?</p>
<p>Hepstar, my son is at MIT. He has a good friend there who is white and who was a minority at his high school. He told me that in his high school AP classes he was probably one of three white kids. What do you make of that?
Did he get in because he was white or because he was a minority?</p>
<p>
Touche, m’dear! ;)</p>
<p>“Hepstar, my son is at MIT. He has a good friend there who is white and who was a minority at his high school. He told me that in his high school AP classes he was probably one of three white kids. What do you make of that?
Did he get in because he was white or because he was a minority?”</p>
<p>Since when did high schools become part of this argument? Last time I checked, admittance into AP classes is based solely on GPA. </p>
<p>I really can’t stand it when people try to justify AA. People like Martin Luther King Jr. fight to end racism for years, and the government just brings it back with AA. It’s intended purpose was to give minorities a boost since they were held back for so long. If it had this purpose, I could see AA as being beneficial. Nowadays, it does much more harm than good. The system is exploited so much now to the point where upper-class minorities are admitted to college over poorer whites and Asians. </p>
<p>The people in the article go to competitive schools. I’m sure they had access to some top-notch teachers. Most of them, including the minorities, weren’t exacly in a “disadvantaged” environment. Why then should AA apply to the magnet school minorities?</p>
<p>“Uh, are you sure about that?”</p>
<p>I’ll admit, this thread has turned into a debate. However, it is practically impossible to discuss AA without having a debate, especially when people try to justify it (which I think is impossible to do).</p>
<p>hepstar, I’m quizzing you because your story doesn’t ring true. Can you back it up or not? Find me the full-ride at RPI on their website that this “cousin” got for being African-American with “less than average” SAT scores of 1300 . I don’t believe you can do it. That is my “point”. If you want to be taken seriously, show your cards. I’m calling your bluff. ;)</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>This isn’t true either. Schools can pretty much make whatever admission policy they want.</p>
<p>i. Hepstar was the one who turned this thread into an AA debate (post #8)
2. Hepstar knows zip about criteria for admission into AP classes.</p>
<p>Hepstar I wasn’t trying to make a point about AP classes. This student was a white kid in a school that was only 30% white and in some of the advanced classes he was one of about three white kids (as reported to me by him and I don’t know how many kids were in the classes). My point is, that this issue isn’t, if you’ll pardon the expression, black and white. There are shades of grey and probably some other colors in there. I think you’re making assumptions based on specific situations.</p>
<p>Hepstar…back to the girl who applied ED to Brown. For one thing…she has not been DENIED…she is deferred. She may still get in. And if she doesn’t? It surely won’t shock me one bit. Numerous HIGHLY qualified candidates are denied at schools with admit rates as low as Brown’s. A kid can be denied at Brown and get into Yale and vice versa. Way more candidates have the requisite “goods” to be admited than they can possibly admit. So, the college makes some choices. It doesn’t mean this girl is not “good enough” to get into Brown. She likely is. But so are umpteen other candidates. The school must also build a class. They want kids from different backgrounds, different geographical areas, etc. They want musicians, debaters, athletes, newspaper writers, etc. They want kids planning to major in the sciences, arts, or humanities or engineering, etc. The early round can’t take too many and so that is also a factor here. Based on the stats you are quoting about this girl…sure she has the SATs and GPA. So? So do plenty of other candidates. They can’t ALL get in! Her ECs sound pretty good but not amazing, if you ask me. I think her big thing is overcoming cancer. Yes, she seems like a viable candidate. She applied as a twin. Perhaps the deferral is to wait to see the rest of the candidates because her sister is on the fence with regard to admissions. I know some sets of twins at Brown. Twins can be a sort of special situation in itself when both apply to the same school. By the way, I have a child of my own who goes to Brown. I surely felt she was qualified to get in but I never would have been surprised one bit if she was denied. Why? Because she and we knew the very very difficult odds with the low admit rate at the most selective schools and that given those odds, highly qualified candidates will be turned away. Usually these highly qualified candidates do get in SOMEwhere, often a very selective school, but it is too hard to predict with the schools that have admit rates under 15%, just which school will definitely give the nod…not because the kid doesn’t have the package it takes to get in but simply the odds are not in their favor no matter how spectacular they are. I don’t know just how spectacular that girl is but she certainly seems in the right ballpark for Brown. But so are many others and they all can’t get in. And certainly kids who have lower SATs or a lower GPA than some other kid can and will get in ALL THE TIME because of all the other factors…great ECs, great RECS, great essays…lots of which we can’t see either…and EVEN THEN, yes, EVEN THEN…some still will have to be denied as there is not room for them all. Perhaps there are too many from that state. Oh well. If you are going to play the game of elite college admissions, you have to be FULLY aware that such an outcome is LIKELY even if you walk on water. I’m not sure that girl walks on water, but even if she does, it is no guarantee she will get in. And so much of your stance is over her SATs and that only demonstrates a very narrow point of view that doesn’t correlate with how elite college admissions can work. When someone is denied at a highly selective college, sometimes there is NO reason they didn’t get in but the bad luck of the draw.</p>
<p>I should know better than to wade in, but let’s try another tack. It’s not as though admitting minority students is some sort of unearned, preferential treatment or favor. Imagine a school that admitted students from top-down based only on academic ability. What would your classes be like? At many LACs, 70% or more women. The kid whose parents were involved with Martin Luther King in the civil rights movement wouldn’t be there. The Buddhist kid in your religion class . . . gone. The first-generation kid from West Africa who’d enriched your international relations class . . . didn’t make the cut. The Hispanic kid who saw art from such a different perspective . . . . not even on the wait list. </p>
<p>Students like these are admitted to selective schools because they are <em>both</em> superbly qualified and because they contribute to the quality of everyone’s education. It’s not just a matter of race . . . but rather a matter of the diversity of life experiences students of differing backgrounds bring.</p>
<p>MarathonMan…for my kids, PART of the appeal of very selective colleges is this very fact you bring up…WHO else attends! The DIVERSITY of the kids’ backgrounds in their student bodies on campus has ENRICHED and been a BIG part of their experience there! It is a huge difference from where they grew up. This is part of what selective schools value and try to achieve when selecting a freshmen class, and frankly, part of what my kids value about their experiences at such schools. One of my kids is in the sky somewhere at this moment over Brazil on her way back to college with 29 other “Scholars” from her school. One of the first things she told me about this group of kids whom she finds extremely stimulating because on the one hand “they are just like me” in terms of intellect (they were hand picked as Scholars),talent, and drive, but “they are from such extremely varied backgrounds”…and she is kinda a minority being a regular Caucasian American in the group. Their being gifted academically is a common link; their being “leaders” is another common link…but, they are from such a wide variety of backgrounds, races, religions, regions, countries…that it makes the learning experience so much more fascinating! That’s what the school is trying to accomplish and that is what some students WANT. They aren’t sitting around comparing one another’s SATs. I guarantee you that there are kids with SATs higher than my D’s who weren’t picked as Scholars or who were not admitted to her school.</p>
<p>“This student was a white kid in a school that was only 30% white…”</p>
<p>Interestingly, my kids went to a HS that was only 15% white… and the other 85% Asian and Indian. My older S spent his last 2 years of HS feeling sure he would be turned down at most of the colleges he applied to because there were just too many really smart Asians and Indians applying. Funny how things look different on all sides of this question, isn’t it.</p>
<p>what hepster neglected to consider in his posts re" "below school average is just that, “average”- which means that many scores are above and many below</p>
<p>Hepster, I have a friend who is Hispanic with SAT and GPA slightly bellow mine (like .5 difference at most for GPA and 20 points SAT) with a very similar schedual and similar strength in ECs. I applied to Penn ED and he applied to Georgetown EA (he is also Catholic). I was accepted to Penn but he was deferred from Georgetown. More people from my school applied to Penn early than Georgetown, and Penn is a tad more selective than Georgetown I think. How did I get into an Ivy League as an Asian with imperfect scores, but my friend with equally impressive stats deferred by Georgetown? Simple answer: pure luck ;)</p>