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</p>
<p>I throw out words such as ghetto? And I do not see the statistics? Which statistics? The statistics produced by a few lunatics? Or the statistics blatantly misquoted? Pluuzhe!</p>
<p>As I said earlier, your really should consider dropping the puerile rethoric, doing some homework on the subject, and coming back after gaining a modicum of understanding of the issues, starting with selecting appropriate and timely sources.</p>
<p>Hep,</p>
<p>The Michigan case was decided back in 2003! Quotas are no longer used in admissions. An applicant’s race is now just a factor that may be considered by admissions when creating a diverse campus.</p>
<p>Hepstar, we peeked in a biology classroom when we visited Berkeley. It was 100% Asian. Luckily not all of Berkeley looks like that yet, but I’m hoping my son goes to a college that is a bit more diverse. I have no problem with colleges looking to create diverse classes. And I would imagine the number of 2400 URMs who get rejected is miniscule. So what?</p>
<p>That’s not the point. The very fact a system like UMich’s was used shows whast’s wrong with AA. Come on now. More points for URM status than perfect SAT scores. I can’t believe this system was actually used since it’s bias is tangible.</p>
<p>“As I said earlier, your really should consider dropping the puerile rethoric, doing some homework on the subject, and coming back after gaining a modicum of understanding of the issues.”</p>
<p>Look at you xiggi. Modicum. Puerile. Sounds like you’re the one using the fancy rhetoric. </p>
<p>Why won’t someone just answer the 2 questions I have been asking all along:</p>
<p>1.) Can any of you name one URM with a 2400 SAT, 5’s on AP exams, who was rejected/deferred from a school?</p>
<p>2.) AA was designed to help DISADVANTAGED minorities. Why then does it apply to the minorities in the arrticle, who go to some of the best high schools in NYC (hardly what you’d call disadvantaged)?</p>
<p>Just so you know:</p>
<p>Saying things like “a person w/a 2400 SAT wo was rejected wouln’t want to tell anyone” does not count as an answer. Jian Li was very outspoken about his rejections, as are many other Asians. If I had a perfect score and I was rejected from a school, I would certainly mention it to as many people as I could. After all, a perfect score rejection is someting worth griping about.</p>
<p>Stop dancing around the issue, making asinine posts, and just answer these questions!</p>
<p>Hep,</p>
<p>Obviously, either no one on this board knows a 2400 URM reject, or no one cares to participate in your pointless argument.</p>
<p>Also, I think several of us have already disagreed with you that promoting diversity on campuses is merely intended to reward the “disadvantaged.”</p>
<p>As Pres Bush said, in the article you yourself cited:</p>
<p>“America is a diverse country, racially, economically, and ethnically. And our institutions of higher education should reflect our diversity. A college education should teach respect and understanding and goodwill. And these values are strengthened when students live and learn with people from many backgrounds.”</p>
<p>I think you could benefit from such an environment.</p>
<p>Actually, here’s a thought: can YOU name a URM who has a 2400 SAT? Not a URM who was rejected with a 2400 SAT, just a URM with a 2400 SAT. I think you’d recognize the statistical difficulty with this.</p>
<p>I know 3 URMs who were NMFs. I don’t know if they had 2400 (or rather 1600) SAT because in our school it’s gauche to discuss scores and GPAs. They also had achievements that were far more impressive than their SAT scores. Two graduated at barely 16 with slews of APs.</p>
<p>“Obviously, either no one on this board knows a 2400 URM reject, or no one cares to participate in your pointless argument.”</p>
<p>If my argument is pointless and no one wants participate, why do you keep posting here? The fact that no one here knows a 2400 URM reject to counteract the numerous 2400 Asian rejects/deferrals says a lot. It shows that AA is helping minorities and hindering Asians. It shows that Asians have to be held to a higher standard than other applicants, which in my mind is unfair. </p>
<p>While a diverse student body might be nice, it has strings attached, the biggest being the limitation on Asian admissions. Is diversity at a college really worth the restriction on Asian admissions? I would say no. </p>
<p>My Poli Sci teacher came up with a good analogy for this. The US Govt doesn’t restrict people from swinging their fists. A person can swing at air all day if he/she wants to. However, when the fist-swinger wants to hit another person, he/she has crossed the line. The fist swinger would be violating the other person’s rights once he/she punches the other person in the face. Therefore, the right to swing fists has to be limited.</p>
<p>As silly as this sounds, it puts AA college diversity in perspective. Sure, diversity sounds great. Diversity isn’t prohibited by law. However, AA diversity “crosses the line” because it violates the rights of the Asian/white students to have equal chance of college admission. There is nothing wrong with diversity itself. It is just the means that are used to attain it that are wrong.</p>
<p>Hepster</p>
<p>Despite the 2400 URM test is of your own making and determinative of nothing, there was I believe on page 1 of this thread a 2390 URM posted who had also been deferred by MIT. Please elaborate on the difference as you see it between a 2390 and a 2400.
(…oh, and does it matter to you how many times the test is sat for to get the 2400 and whether it is a mix and match 2400.)</p>
<p>Rightly or wrongly, I question the priorities/sanity/whatever of students who have scored in the 2300’s repeatedly taking the SAT over to try to make it 2400.</p>
<p>More importantly as far as truthfulness goes, did you ever come up with your cousin’s scholarship? As I recall you claimed your cousin had a non need free ride to RPI which you attributed to AA. Curmudgeon pointed out that according to their website, RPI does not have ANY non need based full ride scholarships. You promptly changed the subject. One of you is wrong. It doesn’t appear to be curmudgeon. The only real question seems whether it was you or your uncle who was making the story up…if you even have an uncle.</p>
<p>Finally, the title of this thread, (which you started!!!), is “How Did the “Super-Applicants” Do?”</p>
<p>Your OP was</p>
<p>"Remember this article:</p>
<p><a href=“http://nymag.com/news/features/24398/index.html[/url]”>http://nymag.com/news/features/24398/index.html</a></p>
<p>Does anyone know how these students did in the admissions process?"</p>
<p>So please stop referring to the original topic of this thread as the 2400 Asian girl and AA. While even from that first post it was probably your intent to start a fight about this, it was not what you stated. </p>
<p>…and as it is clear that the thread is not related to parents and that you are NOT a parent, but a student and a rather unctuous one at that, it seems you had no business posting this in the Parent Forum to begin with. </p>
<p>Cheers</p>
<p>“I know 3 URMs who were NMFs. I don’t know if they had 2400 (or rather 1600) SAT because in our school it’s gauche to discuss scores and GPAs. They also had achievements that were far more impressive than their SAT scores. Two graduated at barely 16 with slews of APs.”</p>
<p>Were they rejected from a school of MIT’s calibur?</p>
<p>Sigh… Are you thinking of maybe getting with the program any time soon?</p>
<p>“Were they rejected from a school of MIT’s calibur?” —></p>
<p>“Were they DEFERRED from a school of MIT’s calibur?”</p>
<p>(90% of those who apply to MIT EA are deferred. The answer for anyone, regardless of their ethnicity, is “probably so”.)</p>
<p>The 2390 URM was half white/half columbian. He wasn’t even sure if he could be considered Hispanic (notice the question mark next to Hispanic). My cousin (who exists and DID get a full-scholarship) looks black. Competitive schools have interviews and I’m sure that MIT saw this URM. He probably looked white, so his URM status was questioned. My cousin’s mother (who is black) went to her interviews with her. How do you know that he even put Hispanic down as his race? From the question mark next to his race, it is highly unlikely that he was sure he had secured his URM status.</p>
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</p>
<p>Hepstar, I called the rethoric puerile for the stubborn insistence on the “unaswered” question, not for the use of “fancy” words. I’ll remember to switch modicum for minimum, if that makes a difference.</p>
<p>Setting that aside, let’s play a “what-if” game:</p>
<p>What if you NEVER find any evidence of a URM candidate having been rejected or deferred anywhere … what then? Would that allow you to draw a meaningful conclusion? What would you learn from a --or multiple-- rejection of high-stats-URM? Wouln’t you go back to the impact of holistic reviews? </p>
<p>What if I asked you to check a (disclosed) record of a URM candidate who had stellar stats, was accepted at every hyper selective school she applied to, but did not fare that well at … Scripps? Hardly relevant, especially since it may be a isolated case. Yet, it is quite common for the “best of the best” to find a collection of deferrals or rejections among several acceptances.</p>
<p>The reality is that you won’t establish racial discrimination against one group by merely pointing to the absence of certain attributes in … other groups. This ab absurdo reasoning will not yield the results you might hope for. What do you gain by establishing that URM DO get preferential treatment? Isn’t that the precise AIM of the legislation – a legislation that is still unable to make any meaningful change in the yearly URM statistics?</p>
<p>At the end of the day, there is an inescapable truth: the SAT is one element of a larger puzzle in which other elements carry more weight. This precise thread simply provides more evidence that the “2400 should equal automatic admission” is plain ridiculous. </p>
<p>No matter how many times the same topic shows up, we will end up with the line drawn in the sand. Some know --and accept-- that the 2400 perfect score means very little on its own, and close to nothing without additional credentials. Others will invariably continue to cling to the erroneous notion that a perfect score makes the candidate … perfect. Unfortunately, the message has been too slow in reaching the SAT factories where thousands of poor students are needelessly tortured to deliver a score that has lost it El Dorado value. Again, most people have learned that it is not enough to apply generous layers of lipstick to a pig when the contest is no longer about cosmetic beauty, but about … other qualities and genuine passions.</p>
<p>“Were they DEFERRED from a school of MIT’s calibur?”</p>
<p>What about Jian Li? He was Asian and he was REJECTED from MIT.</p>
<p>“If my argument is pointless and no one wants participate, why do you keep posting here?”</p>
<p>Hep,</p>
<p>Very good question.</p>
<p>I suppose it is my altruistic hope that I might help enlighten a well-intentioned but naive youth see the greater good in promoting/encouraging racial diversity in every facet of our lives, here in our racially diverse U.S.A.</p>
<p>I have no doubt that the 2400 Asian reject will be admitted to a good university and do just as well wherever s/he ends up. So I don’t agree with your teacher that this situation is analogous to being hit and injured by someone’s swinging fist.</p>
<p>I am sure that MIT rejects plenty of 2400 scorers. So what? There are plenty of other metrics that MIT cares about more, like AIME scores, IMO medals, etc…
What’s this about 2400 SAT fetishism?</p>
<p>Oh, and it’s “caliber,” not “calibur.”
But you’re right. This thread has long outlived its usefulness which was to enquire about–I suppose–the fate of ALL the super applicants.</p>
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</p>
<p>Accepted by some; rejected by others. Seemed the system did work for him at Yale.</p>
<p>What about Jian Li & MIT indeed? Are you claiming that MIT discriminates against Asians? ROTFL. Have you visited?</p>
<p>“I am sure that MIT rejects plenty of 2400 scorers. So what? There are plenty of other metrics that MIT cares about more, like AIME scores, IMO medals, etc…
What’s this about 2400 SAT fetishism?”</p>
<p>Last time I checked a 2400 SAT score was pretty damn impressive. You all seem to love belittling the accomplishment of getting a perfect score. Any high school student will tell you, a perfect SAT score is quite a feat, regardless of race or educational background. </p>
<p>Sure, MIT considers other factors besides SAT scores. Let’s be honest though. If Luo’s was a URM, do you really think she would’ve been deferred?
If you do believe that Luo would have been deferred even if she was a URM, cite an example to prove that it could happen. Find me a 2400 URm with 5’s on AP exams that was turned down.</p>