<p>I’m not equating it with racism per-se, but there was a process which you (seem to) acknowledge was arbitrary and unfair to some people. You had two choices: participate or not. You could have chosen not to participate, but since you were not affected by the unfairness, you chose to participate anyway.</p>
<p>It was your choice and you made it. But by participating your are tacitly endorsing and supporting a process that you are admitting is not fair to all.</p>
<p>Apologies if I’ve mischaracterized anything here, but is this not the case?</p>
<p>I don’t see anyone defending the over-the-top, 5x girls compete for x spots situations. Of course that’s ridiculous, and the administrators at such colleges should push for some system where the rush quota is determined by looking at the number of girls going through near the very end and dividing by the number of houses, or something similar.</p>
<p>Am I endorsing legacy or developmental or affirmative action or athletic admits if I apply to a school that takes those things into consideration when deciding to accept applicants?</p>
<p>Based on your response in #122 you seem to have a big problem if four people get rejected whilst one gets accepted for each spot. If this is the case, why are you ok with <em>anybody</em> getting rejected from a house to which they want to join? Isn’t it just a question of scale?</p>
<p>I don’t have had to have lived under apartheid to know it was a bad idea nor visit China to know they have a repressive government. If I see injustice happening, I’m just as entitled to an opinion as anyone else.</p>
<p>I disagree with that second statement. The women I know who rushed in very competitive greek systems are high achievers. Maybe it’s because I’m in Texas, maybe it’s the South or maybe it’s just the sororities in question, but these women have a drive that I do envy. </p>
<p>That’s part of what makes the system, even the highly competitive ones, a mixed-bag as far as I am concerned. </p>
<p>My friend who used to get migraines every rush because she loathed the rejection aspect of it was part of a house that had mandatory study hours, had a very high gpa expectation and they have a lifelong networking system that is second to none. She made the trade-off of living with the rejection part of it so that she could live in a situation that would force her to perform academically at a level she wasn’t sure she could motivate herself to do on her own.</p>
<p>Why is Greek Life way more popular in the south/west as opposed to the North/Northeast?
Even at more liberal schools in the south like UNC-Asheville, greek life is not very popular.</p>
<p>I guess what I’m trying to get at, is there a specific school environment where greek life thrives and becomes popular and why is this so?</p>
<p>“The current system, while imperfect, enables everyone to get a chance to be exposed to all the houses in a systematic fashion, as opposed to all the new freshmen deciding upfront they want to be Kappa Chi Whatevers because they hear they are the “best” house.”</p>
<p>And this system enables just about everyone, even at uber-competitive schools, to receive a bid. The “best” house isn’t necessarily the best house for everyone - if I’d pledged our “best” house, I would have been miserable. Nothing wrong with them or me, it just wasn’t a good fit. Many PNMs would not be able to see this if not for the current system.</p>
<p>I’m not sure that is true…look at this link that shows colleges by the % of UG in fraternities. It’s all over the US…although it does seem to be less in the West and NW.</p>
<p>However, I will give you my theory based solely on my own experience. I grew up and lived in the NE for the first 20 years of my life and have subsequently lived in the SE for the last 28 years. My impression is that, in the south, socializing is very, very important and people here really like to join ‘clubs’. That’s part of the reason there are so many churches here - it’s more about the social aspect of ‘belonging’ than anything else. People here really value being ‘friendly’. That’s just my opinion based upon my own personal experience, I have no data to back up that statement but my husband comes from a very long line of southerners and they, on the whole, are all about getting together and socializing, whereas my New England ancestors were much more ‘distant’ and were more about keeping to yourself.</p>
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</p>
<p>I’m not sure there is an answer to that. That list seems to represent a pretty eclectic group of schools - from large to small from big universities to small LACs.</p>
<p>OTOH, UNC-Asheville tends to have a very distinctive type of atmosphere. Asheville is very artsy and counter-culture and is probably the last place a fraternity would thrive.</p>
<p>If you haven’t had a chance to visit Asheville yet while you’re at Clemson, you need to drive up there. It’s very different and a pretty cool place, IMHO.</p>
<p>Stats from the Recruitment page for Auburn university, typically known for being a heavily Greek school in the <em>gasp</em> South!</p>
<p>In summary, a small % of girls were released totally from recruitment because at some point they had no invites. Most cuts are for not having the minimum grades (around a 3.0 from HS but depends on the sorority). Other releases are because, when a girl gets her invites back, she may choose not to visit a certain sorority/ies, instead of spending more time with those groups and giving them another chance. Advice from experienced sorority members/alumna is always Maximise Your Options and attend every party you are invited to - you may change your mind (I did!) and don’t get hung up on the groups you think you should like vs the ones with girls you actually click with.</p>
<p>"Over the past 4 years, only 6.2% of potential members were released from recruitment, either during the week or on Bid Day. We know that 3.7% were true releases in that they reached a point in the week when they received no invitations. However, the remaining 2.5% of them were released on Bid Day. That 2.5% is made of 118 women (over a four year period), who all listed fewer options than those available to them in their final preferences. So, of the 118 women released on Bid Day, all were released because they chose to list only one or two sororities in their preferences and would have been placed in a chapter had they maximized their options for joining. In other words, all of them would have received a bid from a sorority had they simply been more open minded and listed all of their preferences.</p>
<p>Although it is a small proportion of our potential members, the women released from recruitment are a very important population to us. Here are some of the scenarios in which a potential member might be released:</p>
<ul>
<li><p>Some potential members will reach a point in the week when no chapters invite them back for the next round of Recruitment events. Be aware that this might happen at any time. As mentioned above, this happens with about 3.7% of potential members. The number of invitations a woman receives at one round is not indicative of whether or not she might be released at the next. If a potential member has two chapters inviting her back after the first round of parties, it is very possible that she will attend these parties all the way to preference round and receive a bid. Also, some releases are women who received the full amount of invitations the day before. It is important to know that most sororities will make their largest releases at the beginning of the week. So, most potential members will not receive the full amount of invitations after this round. Keep that in mind when talking to your daughter and don’t take a low amount of invitations as a sign of an impending release.</p></li>
<li><p>The other way that potential members are released from recruitment involves not receiving a bid through bid matching. When a potential member submits her preferences, Panhellenic uses a system that will work to place her in her first choice. If we are unable, we will then begin trying to place her in her second choice before trying to place her in her third choice. The actual mechanics of the system are too difficult to explain, but if a potential member is not placed, it means that she was ranked low in the preference list of all chapters she indicated a willingness to join. The order you rank the sororities in your preference selections affects which chapter you join, but it can’t change whether you receive a bid or not. However, most potential members who are not matched with a sorority are left unmatched because they chose not to list a particular sorority. In most cases, women who are released in this way would have received a bid had they maximized their options by indicating a preference for every chapter they attended for preference round. Please know that the sorority they would have matched would be the one they chose not to list, but they still would have had a bid. It is a misconception that listing a chapter you truly don’t want to join will help you get a bid into the one that you want. This is not true. Listing all of your options increases your chance of getting a bid in general."</p></li>
</ul>
<p>soze: I did not actually think the system was unfair in that it discriminated as a whole against any one person or type. Certain pieces of the whole had criteria that I found objectionable, but I did not judge all GLOs based on what one or two sororities on my campuses seemed to do. In general, I thik the rush process at my school was fair because any person above a certain GPA could participate in the activities. They had impartial counselors and debrief sessions, and materials that were given to all for review. Everyone knew the rules, everyone was introduced to each house. That is fair and open. So many people who participated in rush did not get paired with houses. Many kids don’t get accepted into their 1st, 2nd or 3rd choice of college. Even more people don’t get jobs based on a subjective interview with an HR person. It is a social club, not forced sterilization and institutional racism.</p>
<p>I never wanted to rush as I don’t do “organizations” well. My husband didn’t rush but was invited to join a fraternity and they even offered to cover his dues. He chose not to because he just felt he wasn’t a Greek type, whatever that is.</p>
<p>Now, our daughter is planning on rushing and we support her in her decision. She still doesn’t know if she wants to pledge or not. Of course, it will depend on a lot of factors but one is balance. She wants to be able to focus on her studies and maintain her grades, but she doesn’t want to stay holed up in a library and is interested in forming social relationships, which a sorority can offer. My only advice to her is for her to only join if she truly feels the sorority and the girls in it are who she wants to be with. She doesn’t have to be in a sorority and she doesn’t not have to be.</p>
<p>A couple of years ago, my son opted to pledge a fraternity. He loved it…at first. </p>
<p>It was a campus without fraternity housing. They had one of the highest amounts of community service hours, they accepted people no matter how quirky. It was atypical of what I understood a fraternity to be. As a parent, I was a convert.</p>
<p>But then things gradually changed for him. He decided to leave the frat after one year, because he felt that the group of guys had a new and different objective than what he signed up for. He asked to be released after realizing that he was “paying” for the privilege of these friendships.</p>
<p>Some of those friendships endured and have been incredible, post-fraternity. Two of his dearest friends left the frat at the same time, and they will probably be friends for life. </p>
<p>Some, not so much.</p>
<p>It was instructive for him. He is glad he did it, but also glad he got out when he did.</p>
<p>You keep giving examples where qualified professionals are making evaluations for roles and positions where particular competency or qualifications are required. This is not the case with a college fraternity or sorority.</p>
<p>Soze, so our you saying that one of my rush chairs, who has a 4.0, is involved in many school sanctioned organizations, captain of the swim team, 8 year lifeguard, and great guy is not qualified?</p>
<p>Have you been even reading this thread at all?</p>
<p>What I’m saying is that university recognized and sanctioned organizations should have open admission for any student who wants to join. The only exception to this would be where a particular competency or skill is required for membership (such as a sports team or singing group) and in those cases the evaluations should be performed by people who are competent and qualified to make these assessments. </p>
<p>Since you are using arbitrary social criteria for fraternity or sorority admissions, the notion that someone could be “qualified” to make these determinations really doesn’t exist.</p>
<p>ok, my final word this weekend on the subject:
A national organization, no different than other non-profits in regards to financial accounting, oversight, board approval, etc. has declared these legal adults to be there ambassadors. The rush chairs have most likely received advice from the national office and from the schools Pan-Hel or IFC regarding the conduct of its members and any university-wide restrictions. These people are deemed qualified to pick from their peers whose that they wish to have as fellow roommates, friends and family. Is it an injustice if you apply to be in a coop house and are denied? Is it injustice if you are turned down to be a roommate from an ad that was placed on Craigslist? There is an application process, an interview (or several) and a decision made by all parties. Once provisionally invited to join, there is a training period where all parties continue to examine fit based on the organizatons ideals. Once a full member, all parties are held to certain standards while in college, and to a lesser extent, throughout their lives. If these national organizations CHOOSE to give this responsibility to 19 year-olds, that is their business. They leave it up to those people on the front-lines that will be most directly affected by the decision.</p>