How do you "package" a kid?

Parents Forum
41

I agree with the posters who spoke about letting kids be kids and evolve during high school.

My son has five favorite extracurricular commitments that have really mattered to him and in which he has done amazing work during his senior year. Only three of those were for four or more years. Of the other two, one he began in November of junior year, and one in August of senior year.

They were new interests for him, but they became huge interests to which he has devoted hours and hours of time. And he is showing leadership and having huge success with both activities. Both were mentioned in his application, but his big achievements with each came AFTER he had already been admitted early decision to his top choice college!

He was not hurt by having dropped some activities he did not enjoy as much as he had hoped when he started them (he did not mention those on his application) nor by having taken up some new interests later in his life (which he did mention). He will be going to a college that accepted only 12% of its applicants this year.

It would have been a serious mistake to deny him these pleasurable activities which also developed new interests and abilities for him. One even introduced a possibility for a future career.

As parents, we thought activities should be done for fun and a release from the pressure of all the hard work he was doing. We did not interfere with what he chose to do. We knew the activities would be part of a resume someday, but we did not encourage him to make decisions about them with a resume in mind.

But, when August of senior year arrives and the Common App opens, it is still important to take what a teenager values and has accomplished and present it to admissions officers in an appealing way. I think my son presented himself very well, taking what otherwise could be seen as very ordinary activities and using them to show how extraordinary he is.

42

@gallentjill - I thnk you are missing a big piece of the picture–

Every year the Ivies admit kids who did what they wanted to in high school, but are naturally or internally driven to strive for something or stand out in some way. They are not being packaged or managed - it just come naturally to them,and as often as not, they are lopsided with a heavy focus on one or two interests as opposed to hitting the practicall-perfect-in-every-way benchmark. These kids aren’t forced into giving up free time – their passion or pursuit is what they want to be doing in that time.

And yes there are parents who have their heart set on their not-at-all-extraordinary kids getting into Harvard who hire people like @Wheaty to pretty much tell them what they want to hear and maybe succeed in nudging a kid away from inertia into more productive endeavors… and some of them do get into Harvard.

But the thing that is wrong is the whole “tippy top” thing. If a kid doesn’t come by the drive naturally, then she may get into Harvard, but probably won’t get anything particular wonderful out of it. A kid who picked their college off the Colleges That Change Lives website might end up with a better experience.

Your task as a parent is to help your daughter choose colleges that are a good match for her interests, abilities, and personality. They don’t have to be “tippy top”. The colleges don’t want to be awed or amazed – they just want to select diverse classes made up of interesting students.

I think a lot of college apps are probably a mess, in that they don’t do a good job in portraying a clear sense of who the student is and how the student is different from every other student who applies. And an admissions consutant can probably help clean up the mess.

But a lot of students are wonderful, bright, kids who really aren’t the types who need to do the competitive admission thing. They just need a good sense of their interests and preferences and perhaps some help in finding which colleges will meet their criteria. No one has to play the crazy admissions game.

43

I have written this before: don’t try to fit the kid to a school, instead find a school that fits the kid.

That said, for reasons other than admissions, we parents certainly try to surf the waves of interests our kids have. That is my image. If a kid starts to really love music, then find a teacher, maybe consider summer program, that kind of thing.

Down time is precious and no one values it anymore.

I have helped applicants with essays (on CC, behind the scenes, and as a community volunteer) and the most frequent advice I give concerns likability. No need for big words or claims of wanting to cure cancer. One of the best essays I read was about blueberry muffins.

Admissions should NOT drive high school years. I really believe that creates a sick dynamic of dependence on external motivators like grades and college admission, when, over the long term, internal motivation is the healthier way to go.

Back to basics: find a school that fits the kid and don’t package, but encourage authentic interests.

44

@compmom - I completely agree with you. The most important part of the process is for the student to figure out who they are and where they will be appreciated. The only packaging might be helping them tell their story in a coherent way. I found that my son was reluctant to blow his own horn and tended to sell himself short. And it helps if the GC and LOR writers are on the same page so that the story is consistent.

45

One other thing: if a kid has a significant interest outside of school, it is often very appropriate to have letters or recommendation from that activity. Of course kids can do music and arts supplements but it is only fair for anyone with a significant interest not well covered in the common application (or known by school folks) to have at least a letter from a person who knows them in that context.

This kind of thing can also be covered in an essay. I think it is effective to write about a significant interest in the supplementary one that asks if there is anything else the college should know about you, that hasn’t been covered, and then leave the main essay (s) free for other topics. But others do like to write about a significant interest or activity in the essay.

It’s really not complicated.

46

Forgive me for the perspective as the mom of some B students.

But some of this talk sounds so very crazy to me.

I love my kids with my whole heart. Nope, they don’t get the top grades. But they’re absolutely wonderful kids. And the goal in our college searches was to find the right school for them to live and learn for 4 years, or for as long as they wanted to be there.

It was never about pretending they were something they’re not. It was never about making choices with a 14 year old that were focused on the future-- the choices we made were about the 14 year old we had, not the 18 year old he would become.

So the “Packaging”— though I personally would never think of it in that light-- was all about making sure the schools they were applying to saw my kids as they are. The application is a two way process-- you want the right fit for your kid, and you want to make sure your kid is the right fit for the school. If either part of the process is off kilter, it seems to me that your kid will be miserable.

47

@compmom exactly! I have been saying this for years… which is why the concept of “packaging” sounds so strange to me.

48

“Packaging” is an uncomfortable concept. It implies drawing attention, like a star hs pitcher, kid really has the arm, works well as an idividual and team player, who needs all the the bells rung, the videos, to show up at the right camps, and then some, to get the right notice.

But there’s a lot of ground between letting the kid apply to college “au natural,” so to say, and tyring to “manufacture” the best app you or your consultant think will hit some mark. Especially when you- and your consultant- don’t know what that mark is, you’re assuming, and listening to conflicting advice. And, believing it’s random, some others’ claims that their kid did nothing special, at all, just followed his or her own nose.

The sales analogy was given above. First two principles in sales aren’t about persuasivenes. It’s know your target’s wants and needs, values and goals. Take that time, have that savvy. And, know exactly what your product (kid) offers that matches those. Then you wrap it up in a nifty presentation.

Of course, most of this thread didn’t specify what tier. Finding the right match is a lot about what other parents posted. Many of the colleges have softer admit rates and a smart kid or parent, teacher, friend or other can help the kid find the right fit, the right notes, show that match.

But when it comes to tippy tops, this really isn’t a crapshot, come as you are. Not when “as you are” isn’t the puzzle piece they’re looking for. It doesn’t take a consultant to try to learn what distinguishes one school from another and what those broad pieces are.

49

I don’t think a plan or packaging is necessary for tippy tops either. If a kid has an interest or talent and it is followed naturally, elite schools can work out too. The point is not to poison high school or even attitude toward life by doing things in order to “get in” but instead to develop as a person, an artist, a scholar, an athlete, a singer, whatever…

50

If to package means to put the kid in certain activity, taking specific courses, joining specific clubs, etc solely for applying to certain schools, I don’t agree with that. I did help my kids to “package” their college applications from her past experience, the EC activities they did, and anything they have achieved that would be helpful. I had to remind them to put the EC they did a few years ago on the application. They also need help to find good essay ideas from their life. To me, “packaging” is an after math instead of a shopping list. It is to put something you already have together instead of looking for something you don’t have.

51

But I do think you can steer then to appreciate balance. And new experiences. It’s part of how we guide them in other respects- try this or I want you to learn that skill for your future. It just seems when the topic is college, we freak about them being just what they want. Too often, that mires them.

52

@twogirls One of my students wants to be an astronaut and work for NASA. She was committed to that from the 7th grade. She’s a double major at MIT right now and we are working on her path to the right PhD program after she graduates next year. It’s possible to become an astronaut without an academic plan but it’s highly unlikely today.

53

Steering towards their (not our) interest is part of parenting, not for college application. I don’t consider it “packaging” at all.

54

Not that he needs my defense, @Wheaty serves two (basically) distinct clients. Kid A who went about his/her business being a “normal” HS student and Kid B who is a strategic or targeted student looking for specific outcomes. He helps the former by organizing the content to read like a better story. ( I completely understand the need for this as my S was a highly accomplished and well rounded student in HS. We know what he did and who he is, but his application just sounded average - more like a list of things without any guts. I got him to revisit it many times until it sounded a representative story of him.) He helps the latter by laying out a path of action as they are seeking something special. Although we didn’t do that, I see the value for those who want that outcome.

Someone made a comparison to sports, a HS pitcher I believe. S was a very good HS player, surrounded by other good players. Those that wanted to pursue “something special” all had private coaches, played for a specific summer travel team (with national reputation), went to targeted showcase camps, etc. My kid didn’t. He didn’t want to pick a school based on where he could play as he knew his baseball days were numbered. These other kids found what they want; they are playing college baseball at wherever. One has a pretty good shot at getting drafted.

I see this as variables of the same topic. Those that are predetermined to achieve a certain outcome will use resources (coaching) to attain the goal. There’s no guarantee for success but they are enhancing their chances. (I also used to tell my wife that these other families are crazy spending $X on pitching coaches, $Y on travel teams, $Z on showcase camps. All their kids ever do is play baseball. What about being a kid? ) Well sometimes the cream naturally rises to the top, but today it seems to take a lot of planning and plotting for many things. Probably a attribute of technology no one anticipated.

55

I understand the negative feelings about packaging, but I do appreciate diverse opinions, and I’d like to hear more about what it is and why and how someone might do it, rather than just reading more senior members (who, it seems, mostly have already gotten their kids into college) espousing why they are against it. If we choose not to package (I would say “brand”) our kids, then perhaps it would be helpful at least to know what we are up against. Can we allow the OP’s question to be openly discussed without jumping all over the people who are trying to discuss it?

56

I have a question for @Wheaty. My question is sincere and is based on my lack of knowledge… no sarcasm intended.

Can an advisor at MIT help this student achieve her goal of getting into the right phd program?

57

Oops, good question! The advisor is not ony an academic, he or she specializes in that field, knows the opps and what is takes. Yup. Especially at MIT. Do we really believe a bright, properly accomplished and driven kid can’t navigate grad school without a paid application specialist? It’s not the same as undergrad.

58

My older D had several accomplishments that stood out by senior year; She was President of the School, Director of the school’s first co-ed acappella group and was the lead (Belle) in her senior year musical. She also graduated in the top 5% of her class.

We decided that the common theme in her essays and resume spoke of her being a singer wth leadership skills.

Her common app essay was about the acappella group she founded as a Freshman. How hard it was to face her peers at the first meeting at our house and take charge. How the group grew and some of the highlights–singing at Yankee Stadium, charity events, seeing shy singers have solos. It ended with the last meeting at our house and how sad it was to move on from the group, but how she had helped groom new leaders so the group could continue.

(It is now almost 10 years since she graduated HS and the group is still going strong!)

She got accepted to every school she applied. She also got a lot of merit scholarship money (no need) for her singing. She ended up attending NYU as a Vocal Performance major with minors in English and the Business of Entertainment, Media and Technology with a nice talent scholarship . Currently she is back at NYU pursuing her a full-time MBA. She got offered a full-tuition scholarship at both NYU and at the Kelley School of Business. In those essays she again was the singer with great leadership/ community service skills.

59

Most unhooked applications to highly selective schools are packaged, even if the parent thinks they’re not. Ivies and similarly competitive universities rarely receive raw, unpolished applications. Spending time on the essay (and not just basic editing, but changes in content and for better readability), taking the sat/act more than once, listing your ECs by order of impact rather than chronological are all examples of packaging.

60

@Wheaty thank you for saying this, and being honest, but I need to say that this sounds so . . . . and I mean this in the gentlest possible way because I think that you’re genuinely trying to help people. But it seems . . … plastic and jaded. It’s the college equivalent of joining the “plastics” in Mean Girls. Planning a child’s trajectory through high school based on getting into a college, it’s the beauty pageant approach to college admissions. Plump up the lips. Sculpt the butt. Frou-frou the hair. . . . where’s the genuine person there? How will this child learn who he or she genuinely is or how to act when he/she is no longer handled by a professional handler?

I’m sure lots of parents and you would disagree. You probably run a wonderful consulting firm for highly anxious, status-conscious families. Probably the counter argument is: well it gets them into X “dream” school. My feeling is that it’s not worth changing yourself to such a degree a priori based on some pre-concieved idea of what the dream school is out of 2000 possible schools.