how does columbia compare to other top ranked schools?

College Search & Lists
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<p>Interesting thoughts in this article - not sure when it was written but seems fairly recent:</p>

<p>[Is</a> the Ivy League “Worth It”? - MSN Encarta](<a href=“http://encarta.msn.com/encnet/departments/college/?article=ivyleagueworthit]Is”>http://encarta.msn.com/encnet/departments/college/?article=ivyleagueworthit)</p>

<p>The closing graph:</p>

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<p>I concur with the view that there are “scores” of great schools, not just 12 beyond the eight Ivies, so why be limited to the “Top 20” or “Top 25” or “Top 50” or “Top 100” or whatever cutoff is chosen by some arbitrary rankings system? </p>

<p>Well, I can’t do anything about any of the young people currently, or or soon to be, in college, except for the two who grew up under my roof. I’m proud to say that they chose (my S) and are choosing (my D) wisely. No matter what my children end up doing with their lives, I am confident that their educations, wherever they get them, will enrich their lives, their families’ lives, and the lives of others. </p>

<p>Here’s a ranking (from Washington Monthly) that I don’t see discussed much on CC - its goal is to measure how much colleges are giving back to their communities, states, and country. The 2008 guide should be out any day now: [2007</a> College Guide](<a href=“http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/features/2007/0709.collegeguide.html]2007”>http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/features/2007/0709.collegeguide.html))</p>

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<p>The Ivy League is worth it. The 8 schools offer students an incredible undergraduate education, tremendous academic resources, good connections, great post-grad opportunities, etc. Are there other good schools out there? You bet. That doesn’t mean the Ivy League isn’t “worth it” though.</p>

<p>Most high schoolers want to be around a crowd with similar or greater academic ability and ambition when they go to college so they can enrich themselves. You would be hard pressed to find schools that can match the raw intellectual strength/interest, creativitity and leadership qualities that you can find at the Ivies.</p>

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Hear, hear. :)</p>

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<p>When you grow up, you’ll realize that you can be enriched by people from all walks of life, not necessarily only those who had the good fortune to attend schools with USNWR > or equal to your own.</p>

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<p>EAD – you have really drunk the punch, haven’t you? Listen, if you were actually <em>at</em> an Ivy, you would realize quickly that the “King has no clothes”!</p>

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<p>It’s very difficult to find what the “best” school is right now at this current moment in time. If you ask a bunch of college professors from all over the world, you’ll probably get “Harvard” as your answer most of the time.</p>

<p>This is good if you want that “prestige” on your resume, but what if you want to dominate your field? Then what? Do you go for prestige? What if you want to be (or want your child to have the best mentoring possible in order to be) the Einstein or Newton or I.M. Pei of his field?</p>

<p>Then you are in a dilemma, because college rankings and “prestige” and “quality” of schools are based on people’s opinions of them–opinions that were probably formed in the past. In other words, they have no bearing on the current quality of the school in a given field.</p>

<p>To clarify what i’m talking about, take, for example, the many “schools of thought” that have formed in different places and cultures during the history of the world. For some reason, “schools” formed in particular cities, like Florence, where the greatest artists in our history, within just a few decades, made incredible breakthroughs and achieved a quality that has not been matched.</p>

<p>How did this happen? What were the conditions that created this atmosphere? What were the conditions that produced the greatest artistic minds in one location within two decades?</p>

<p>This undefinable “atmosphere” is what you need to be looking for if you want to propel yourself to the top, if you want to become “the greatest,” as opposed to looking for a “name” to place on your resume. This is what we need to figure out how to find.</p>

<p>It could be a community college in the suburbs, a school in NYC that is just beginning to emerge as a great school but no one really knows about, it could be three nerdy high school drop outs who work together flipping burgers at McDonald’s. While they flip burgers, they revise their ideas about string theory. It could be a professor and a half-dozen adult students who are studying part-time at the University of Phoenix Online. Two housewives who meet together to redesign a hybrid vehicle to make it more efficient.</p>

<p>I am exaggerating a bit, but anything is possible. We don’t know anything about these schools and where “the greatest” is being developed right now.</p>

<p>If the U.S. News magazine ranked the best city for learning to create art, it would choose Florence as #1. This ranking would tell you that in the past, Florence had produced “the greatest” artists that ever lived.</p>

<p>Similarly, that Harvard is #1 or #2 or whatever, tells you that, decades ago, “the greatest” were formed at Harvard, but today, no one really knows.</p>

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<p>Whoa. Nice research guys. Hope that helps rjkofnovi.</p>

<p>I have no Umich bias. I like the school. If you want real UMich bias, just go ask those App State guys.</p>

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<p>Read this out loud to yourself.</p>

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<p>If you actually followed the whole thing instead of just posting blindly, you would have realized that I was implying that Umich is a better school than its numbers imply – it just gets the shaft because of certain areas. So if anything, I was defending the institution. Don’t pretend to take the high road and act like you had a reasonable argument. God. So annoying.</p>

<p>If it’s such a great school then why the hell is it ranked below a bunch of privates? Hmm, let’s think? </p>

<p>Gwilliams – Yes we understand that. What you don’t mention though, is that Harvard still manages to produce. How does Harvard have 34 Rhodes Scholars since '00 and Princeton – 9/11? Yale I think has 13? Is that pure student quality? </p>

<p>That’s what doesn’t make sense to me. Harvard has intangibles that are confounding.</p>

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<p>It’s OK to argue about trite statistics if you are mediocre. Then you can brag about your school since you have nothing to brag about your individual self.</p>

<p>But what if you are already “The Greatest”? Or what if you already know that you will become “The Greatest”?</p>

<p>1) If you are already “The Greatest,” then in the grand scheme of things, it doesn’t matter what school you choose. You can choose your favorite school, or the school you like most. Community College or Harvard, no real difference because you already dominate the professors. You have better intuition in your field than anyone else on the planet. From your point of view, all schools look the same. Whatever school you choose will become a great school in the future because of the fact that you went there.</p>

<p>2) If you know that you will eventually become “The Greatest,” then it also doesn’t matter what school you choose. It doesn’t even matter if you decide not to go to school at all. But you can speed up the process by finding a mentor to guide you. If you go to MIT and never find a mentor, pass all your classes, and then graduate with a math degree, you will have a good education, but not as good as a kid that is personally mentored by [Peter</a> Lax](<a href=“http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_Lax]Peter”>Peter Lax - Wikipedia). You can go to Yale, and get a degree in aerospace engineering by excelling in your classes, but your education will not be as strong as the education of a student that never went to college but was personally guided by [Burt</a> Rutan](<a href=“http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burt_Rutan]Burt”>Burt Rutan - Wikipedia) 6 hours a day for 5 years. Rutan is an example of someone that is “The Greatest.” Education doesn’t matter at that level.</p>

<p>3) What if you think that you could possibly become the greatest? Here, it makes sense to choose a school that is ranked high. If you “think” you can become the greatest, then you feel that there is a possibility that you may not achieve that level. In that case, you should choose the best school possible so you have something to brag about when you are old and have not accomplished anything. You could also have a couple of kids that you can shove your dreams onto.</p>

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<p>Bourne. You suggested Michigan’s frosh retention rate and endowment, among other things, were not in line with the top privates. I proved you wrong. Why can’t you just admit that you mispoke?</p>

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<p>1) If being a Rhodes Scholar is a necessary or sufficient condition for Greatness, then your argument has merit.</p>

<p>2) Can you name 0.1% of Rhodes Scholars off the top of your head?</p>

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<p>rjkofnovi you remind me of the steorypical kid (Michigan) who always tries to associate with the “cool people” (duke, columbia, penn) but always gets rejected, yet keep trying.</p>

<p>If you think Michigan is a great school than good for you since you go there. Just stop associating Michigan with the rest.</p>

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<p>gwilliams most people aren’t the “greatest”…all going to an ivy league demonstrates is that you are intelligent and usually your peers are as well. That is what makes them so special, the high concentrations of educated and motivated students. In life at top jobs you will find people like this from all schools. We are not debating how the top kids at institutions like Michigan compares to the top kids at Duke, since I bet they are pretty comparable. We are instead comparing the overall strength of the student body and from those facts people can make an educated assessment of how good or bad a school is. In the end, a school is only as good as the students it attracts.</p>

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<p>Jobs are plenty for Columbia grad seeking to stay in NYC.
<a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/college-confidential-cafe/535561-farewell-my-concubine.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/college-confidential-cafe/535561-farewell-my-concubine.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

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<p>gwilliams55zz:</p>

<p>You have an interesting perspective.</p>

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<p>I can’t. You’re right. It’s just an example. One I think that carries over into other prestigious academic/business/political arenas. Harvard always seems to dominate. </p>

<p>Maybe it’s just me.</p>

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<p>When I said top privates, I meant top privates. That seems to be the area in which Michigan was being placed in the previous conversation others were having. You jumped in and decided to defend something I frankly could care less about while completely missing the original point. Umich is a great school – The End, however Michigan’s endowment doesn’t compare to the top privates. It’s frosh retention rate does. I’m sorry. Everything else you were completely wrong about. Why not admit that? Don’t be so singular.</p>

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<p>Actually the really cool people go to HYPSM. But you knew that already didn’t you?</p>

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<p>Nonsense. The top privates are HYPSM. I have never read any posts on these boards that places Michigan up there with those schools.</p>

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<p>I went to a HYPSM, and I assure you I am not really cool.</p>

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<p>Ok rjkofnovi. </p>

<p>Universities are Universities. I don’t care where anyone goes. I only have a problem when people try to downplay the opportunities that are available at the highest tiers of universities. Prestige isn’t always the sole source of motivation to attend HYPSM. Similar reasoning can be used to explain people picking top 20 privates over their state flagships.</p>

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<p>Most people aren’t the “greatest,” but somewhere in this world there is a group of students at a school that is going through a formative process that will transform the young punks into The Greatest that Ever Lived. People can be selfless, find out where this place is, and send their children there. Or they can send their children to the highest ranked school in US News Magazine that they get into.</p>