<p>My D’s school cares big time about the exam pass rate. Therefore, there are strict rules about who is allowed in to which AP classes, because they want to “ensure” passing scores. You must not only take the prerequisite Honors version of that course, you must do well in the Honors course. (Preferably A- or strong B.) Usually a B- in Honors will not matriculate you to the AP level. In fact, a low grade in any particular Honors exam during either semester can eliminate your AP chances for the following yr. </p>
<p>Additionally, not even everyone who earns an “A” in certain Honors courses will be advanced to a similar Honors course the following year (such as from freshman to sophomore) --which, again, is the ticket to an AP course in that subject for jr. yr.) For certain courses, you have to be a particularly strong student, because the school knows that certain teachers are extremely rigorous as to expectations & grading.</p>
<p>Exam policy varies as to teacher. While the school discourages foregoing the May exam, there is occasionally the need for that & <em>some</em> teachers will allow it; other teachers will not.</p>
<p>Another example would be the 2 sections of AP Calc. Not everyone who does well in AB will advance to BC. It will be the teacher who determines advancement: he or she alone makes that determination. Sometimes that means that very bright students who are not natural mathematicians will advance to BC, whereas the mathematically inclined but not as “quick” will not be advanced. </p>
<p>These policies have caused some surprised reactions & disappointment. On the other hand, the school has an extremely strong profile, which does benefit those who graduate from there.</p>
<p>At my own school the decision is at the discretion of the teacher who will be providing the coursework. There are not strict rules as such, but naturally the student must have demonstrated ability & mastery in basic subject areas. It would be unlikely that an average student would be allowed to take an AP course. They would have to have shown good grades, as well as motivation, initiative, good study habits.</p>
<p>I guess it’s surprising my kids’ HS has as good results as they do in AP exams considering I don’t believe they are THAT rigorous about whom they allow to take APs. My S got a C in precalc & C in English junior year but was allowed to take & has done well in his 5 APs senior year, including AP Calc AB, AP Physics C, AP English. </p>
<p>The school has a very strong profile as well–maybe because the faculty is extremely committed & willing to help all students who will come in for extra help. The physics teacher is there after school nearly every day & also on weekends to work with students who want/need help. All faculty members have 1+ free period during the day when students can come to meet them, as well as designated additional time, e-mail given to all students, etc.</p>
<p>I just wish there was a “happy medium” so that teachers will feel comfortable accepting all well behaved and studious students. Yet, it seems as tho even when kids are well behaved, have an interest in the subject matter, and get good grades, they still aren’t automatically accepted and sometimes have to “talk their way” into a class. Such a student shouldn’t have to go thru that “process” (it’s embarrassing). The only reason that some teachers refuse “qualified kids” is because the teachers fear “retribution” if they don’t have high passing stats. (I know that at back to school nights, some AP teachers mention their passing rates, so obviously someone is keeping track – and I don’t think that it is just the teachers keeping track!)</p>
<p>It is sad but true (& admittedly impressive) when the teacher can flash graphs at the parents showing how much better the AP classes taught by the teacher does than the rest of the nation for that AP subject. If there is any problem with “qualified kids” not getting into AP classes at son’s school, I admit I’m totally unaware of it & actually doubt it because they had every reason to keep my son from taking so many APs due to his junior grades if they wanted to. I’m sure there would be lots of LOUD complaints from students & families if the school tried to keep kids who wanted to take APs out of the classes.</p>
<p>So, what should the criterea be? Grades in previous classes? PSAT or SAT test scores? Grades on previous AP tests? All of these are legitimate. It is always difficult if there are not enough spaces to go around.</p>
<p>What is the best way to resolve it? The one thing that really surprises me from the earlier posts is that some schools will not allow students to take the AP test if they did not take the class at the school. What was the rationale for that policy?</p>
<p>In our high school, a student may be admitted to an AP class if the student has a score of 80 or above in the prerequisite class or with permission of the teacher. The school tries to encourage as many students to take AP classes as possible and has introduced AVID to support students who need extra help.</p>
<p>I can see that in smaller districts with a limited pool of potential teachers, access to AP classes can be difficult to adjudicate. But in larger districts, the potential number of students wanting to enroll in AP classes can be gauged fairly accurately early on. For example, if Honors Physics is a pre-requisite for AP Physics, the size of the Honors Biology class will give a clue as to whether another AP-Biology teacher will be needed to following year or not. </p>
<p>Like Eagle79, I don’t understand the rationale for not allowing students who have not taken the class to take the AP test.</p>
<p>Is this a public school issue only? Two D’s attended separate private schools. At each students were essentially free to take whatever AP courses they wanted BUT it was well understood that the workload would be VERY heavy. No problems I’m aware of. But at the local HS the AP courses have been problematic for many of the reasons noted above, PLUS the administration dislikes the courses because not all teachers can teach them, the “regular” teachers don’t like them due to the inference that AP teachers are “more highly qualified,” and students who want to take AP courses may be socially ostracized as “geeks.” Gee, I wonder why a quarter of eighth graders in our school system opt out for private high schools? Oh, if you’re wondering how well our public HS students do on AP tests, well I can’t tell you – that information is considered “private.”</p>
<p>AP classes are fairly new to our HS and believe they require the signature of the current teacher and a ‘B’ in the current class. Teachers should be able to eliminate some of the ‘dead wood’ from these accelerated classes. Performance in the prereq course is the only fair way to do that. I know that concept doesn’t sit well with some parents, but it inhibits those students who are sincere in their efforts to excel. </p>
<p>Until recent years, the school believed that their highest honors classes were as rigorous as the AP class, without the ‘canned’, restrictions of the College Board program. Many students took the AP test at the end of the year and did very well, making 4’ and 5’s with lots of good teaching and even more hard work. Not sure how many people are aware of the fact that anybody can pay the registration fee for the AP test. Taking the AP class is not a prereq. I am of the opinion that the CB is way too involved and has too much of a vested interest in these programs. Shame on our schools, highly selective colleges and–most of all–parents for falling for this trap. Again, good rigorous can accomplish the same thing, without the trappings of the College Board.
…Just my opinion!</p>
<p>At my school to get into APs you have to have certain classes and good grades inthose classes, so not your everyday moron can get into them. For example, for AP Bio last year you had to have take honors bio and honors chem and received A’s in both of them for the year. Also, a lot of the teachers will give a ton of summer work. The people signed up for AP English in spring of last year was maybe 40 kids. By the time the school year was over, it was down to maybe 35 kids. By the time we started class this year, my class was down to 9 people and the other AP class was 12. So summer work tends to weed out the kids that aren’t up to par at my school.</p>
<p>The college board has pre-requisites for their AP classes. They are determined by PSAT cut-offs, not grades in the current class.</p>
<p>Let me ask a more scenario oriented question. Assume that student A is in an AP class as a sophomore, i.e. US History, gets an A in the class but does not take the test. Student B is in the same class and gets a B, takes the test and gets a 5. Both apply for a spot in the AP European History class the following year. Who should receive priority placement for a spot in class.</p>
<p>Second scenario. Same as the first only Student A does take the AP test and gets a 4. Who should receive priority placement for a spot in the class?</p>
<p>Third scenario, Student B is rejected from the AP US History class because the teacher does not want to sign him/her in. Student B proceeds to self study for the whole year, takes the test and gets a 5. Student A takes the class, gets and A, takes the test and gets a 3. Both apply for a spot in the class. Who should receive priority placement for a spot in the class?</p>
<p>Eagle, I obviously can’t speak for all schools but I am very familiar with the process and I have never heard of a PSAT cutoff in order to be eligible to take an AP class. Are you saying that the College Board dictates a minimum standard for taking an AP class by using PSAT scores? What if the kid hasn’t taken the PSAT? Perhaps I’m misunderstanding your point? Any input from others? Is this the case??</p>
<p>eagle, the CB does not require nor recommend psat (or SAT) scores for AP courses. Instead, the CB recommends academic course work (and a strong desire to learn) as the only prerequisites. For example, they recommend completion of Alg II prior to taking AP Stats, and, of course, Pre-Calc prior to taking AP Calc.</p>
<p>I agree, the CollegeBoard does not dictate a minimum. However they do provide some guidelines and correlation studies between PSAT scores, GPAs and APs scores. Clearly certain academic course work could/should be a pre-requisite but not always. See the following for a PDF from the CB:</p>
<p>Another data point is the Johns Hopkins Center for Talented Youth (CTY) program which uses SAT cut-offs for qualification. Perhaps a reason why many students take the SATs early. For more on this see:</p>
<p>Finally, I also heard this verbally from one of the guidance counselors at my kids school. However, I would not hang my hat on that because I have also received information that was clearly false too.</p>
<p>Anyway, regarding my scenarios, any response? Do you favor GPA over test scores or the other way around? Should student A or B get priority placement with a limited class size?</p>
<p>Teachers should absolutely be able to keep “dead wood” or “class clowns” out of the AP classes; there is just too much material to cover without having to also deal with those kids. </p>
<p>After the above is determined, I think that anyone with a B (85%) or better in the current class should be able to take the AP class.</p>
<p><<<< The one thing that really surprises me from the earlier posts is that some schools will not allow students to take the AP test if they did not take the class at the school. What was the rationale for that policy? >>>></p>
<p>How can a school rationalize such a policy? </p>
<p>How do homeschoolers take the AP tests??? </p>
<p>Couldn’t a kid whose school won’t let him take an AP test for a class he didn’t take at school just take it with homeschooled kids?</p>
<p>Eagle:
Each school has its own way of handling prerequisites. For example, my S took CTY classes in order to qualify for AP-Physics and AP-Chem (he was afraid the Honors classes would be too slow for his liking). While the AP-Physics teacher was a bit dubious about the wisdom of this strategy, he was willing to give it a try (and eventually became a fan of S). S was lucky to be following in the footsteps of a couple of amazing students whom the high school had had to accommodate.
I have not heard of using the PSAT as an admission criterion. Indeed, there are some sophomores who take AP-Calc before they have had a chance to sit for a practice PSAT (given, as you know, in October, well after the start of classes).</p>
<p>What are the “canned” restrictions from collegeboard. I don’t think I know about them. Where can I find them? Are schools strictly held to them? How could Collegeboard “enforce” these restrictions? Does collegeboard “regulate” homeschoolers, too? How can they do that? I admit I am clueless about this.</p>
<p>Since Freshman and (most) sophomores haven’t taken that PSAT, how can that test be used to determine if those kids can sign up for AP classes for their soph and jr years?</p>
<p>I would approve of all three of your scenarios taking Euro the next year.</p>
<p>btw: don’t forget, much of the midwest is still ACT country, and they may take the PLAN, but not psat. Obviously, CB would prefer that they come over to the dark side and use materials made in Princeton, NJ, but won’t limit APs from midwestern high schools just bcos they take the ACT. The study you site, is just that, an academic study to BOOST participating in AP (by finding smart kids that the HS may not be aware of), but not to limit partipation in AP.</p>
<p>younger D school offers the most AP classes of any public school in state
You put your courses requests down with everyone else, and they meet everyones schedule the best they can.
As far as I know, if you have the prereqs- for AP Euro that was just 9th grade honors history, you can request the class.</p>
<p>They encourage but don’t require students to take the test.
As my D is taking the class for challenge, not for college credit, we decided that she is tested plenty already and she didn’t take the AP test, although their final was a “practice” AP test</p>