CA has high income and sales taxes, but low (capped increase) property taxes for longer term property owners (including much commercial real estate), although new buyers of expensive real estate can pay a lot in absolute amounts despite the low percentage. But increased state spending on other things like prisons (effectively mandatory due to “tough on crime” sentencing laws passed over the years during the crime wave) has crowded out post-secondary education spending.
An academic year of in-state tuition/fees at CA publics is about $13,000 for UC, about $9,000 for CSU, and $1,380 (30 credit units * $46 per credit unit) for community colleges. Add an estimated $10,000-$16,000 for resident room and board, or $4,000-$6,000 for food/utilities/transportation for a commuter living at the parents’ house, plus a few thousand dollars for books and misc personal expenses (of course, these can all vary significantly based on student choices and situation, as well as local costs around each campus). CA does have relatively good financial aid for in-state students, though.
The CA higher education system is based on this being a viable model to offer higher education opportunities at lower cost (for both the state and the students/parents) to more residents. The UCs and CSUs are intended to enroll more junior/senior level students than frosh/soph level students – obviously, this means that a substantial percentage of their junior/senior level students are transfers from the community colleges. That may not be the best fit for those who are ready to take junior/senior level courses in frosh/soph years, but those students are likely the minority of college students overall, and the UCs and CSUs do offer frosh admission so that such students (and many others) can go directly to the universities as frosh.
58, the original article isn't about having no debt, it's about have 'whopper' debt and not knowing how that happened. If you take debt as needed, make a plan about repaying it, it's not a surprise. The article is about people not understanding the debt, how much it will take to pay it back, and having a plan to pay it back that is really workable. Doctors have debt. They know it, and they know how they'll pay it back. Teachers have debt, and if it is $15k or so, that's workable. If it is $115k, it's not.
I really wanted my kids to have that ‘sleep-away’ experience, to live at college, to not have to worry (too much) about where every dime is coming from. From our home at the time they graduated from high school, they could have gone to a community college that was about 15-20 miles away (there were actually a few choices) or to a directional state university (highly ranked) and about 15 miles away, but ironically requires EVERY freshman to live on campus, no exceptions. At that point, why pick the directional in town that would cost the same as any other school in the system, including the flagships?
The stats and dollars being discussed here are generalities. MOST students commute, but not everyone wants to or can. If you can, you can save money. If you can’t or don’t want to, you have to consider your situation. Is it more important to go to a CC and give up on some of the social aspects or is it better FOR YOUR DD to incur some debt and go away to school? Either choice is fine. What isn’t fine is to go away, incur a LOT of debt, and then wonder how that happened.
Many black and other non-white students attend colleges and universities where they are members of a relatively small racial/ethnic minority group there. It is not necessarily true that one’s potential and actual friends have to be of the same racial/ethnic group that one is.
Is the14-15K/year tuition for a public college prohibitively expensive for an average NJ family? NJ is a small state, there is always a college nearby to commute to. And you can commute to Rutgers-NB from the most of the state.
If you are poor there are Pell Grant and State grant. Public colleges award merit money to good students.
You do not have to end up with “Massive Student Debt” for NJ undergraduate education unless you make stupid financial decisions.
Living expenses are high in NJ so sleep away experience is a luxury. If you borrow money to fund this optional experience then this is your fault.
If you maintain a car to commute it will open opportunities to commute to work and paid internships. Future employers will value this much more than most of the ECs you may be doing on campus.
“An academic year of in-state tuition/fees at CA publics is about $13,000 for UC, about $9,000 for CSU, and $1,380 (30 credit units * $46 per credit unit) for community colleges. Add an estimated $10,000-$16,000 for resident room and board, or $4,000-$6,000 for food/utilities/transportation for a commuter living at the parents’ house, plus a few thousand dollars for books and misc personal expenses (of course, these can all vary significantly based on student choices and situation, as well as local costs around each campus). CA does have relatively good financial aid for in-state students, though”
for comparison:
an academic year at Rutgers is $14,131 for in state commuters at the main campus, in state tuition+R&B=$26,185
the closest CC is $140/semester hour, so for 30 hours=~$3200+ car, gas, tolls, insurance, etc. a good majority of the state has pathetic public transportation and one would absolutely need a way to get there-a car would be a necessity, not a luxury.
and yes, there are places in the state of NJ of which it would be absolutely absurd to commute to Rutgers-NB.
and finally, why yes, yes there are residents of the state that it just MIGHT be a hardship to pay ~$15,000/year for a commuting student.
kac425, that’s true, but wouldn’t the same $15k be needed to live at any college? If someone says “there is no CC near me so I must go to sleep-away college” then the savings have to be made up with a lower tuition school. Go live near a CC, or live at Granny’s house. All the article is saying is it is not a good thing to borrow $25k per year and then be shocked that you owe over $100k at the end of 4 years. Wouldn’t it be cheaper to move to a place near a CC and still save on tuition?
look at Wyoming. — it has only ONE 4-YR COLLEGE in the entire state. there are many areas in the rural plains states or mountain states where getting to any college is not easy.
I know that is fairly common to require frosh to live in the dorms, but with exceptions that allow those living with parents within a certain distance of the school, or various categories of non-traditional students (older, married, veteran, etc.) to live elsewhere.
“look at Wyoming. — it has only ONE 4-YR COLLEGE in the entire state. there are many areas in the rural plains states or mountain states where getting to any college is not easy.”
Wyoming is pretty cheap to attend even if you are residential. TR&B is $15k. Tuition is under $5k in-state. Plus there are multiple 2 year and CC schools.
“kac425, that’s true, but wouldn’t the same $15k be needed to live at any college? If someone says “there is no CC near me so I must go to sleep-away college” then the savings have to be made up with a lower tuition school. Go live near a CC, or live at Granny’s house. All the article is saying is it is not a good thing to borrow $25k per year and then be shocked that you owe over $100k at the end of 4 years. Wouldn’t it be cheaper to move to a place near a CC and still save on tuition?” (I have NO idea how to actually quote here!!)
maybe, maybe not–maybe there are some lower cost OOS’s with decent aid to a middle of the road student with no hooks…probably not ones you’ve heard of, but hey, its an education. It conceivably could cost less than $15k and even if the same, that $15k was for the commuting student to Rutgers, so add/subtract the commuting costs if one lives on campus. even with transportation coming home for holidays, still cheaper than the cost of commuting daily. and sure–if you cant afford it, you cant…would be irrelevant where one went
ironically, until this thread, I thought that CC’s were largely frowned upon here…of course its generally a cheaper option and a perfectly respectable one–really, more people should go that route. even with the freshman scholarship pool one should run the numbers if cost is the bottom line…a $2,000/yr scholarship is nice, but it probably still works out better for CC 2 years+Uni 2 years. I just wanted to point out the cost for comparison purposes-$140/credit vs $30 is a big difference for a young person.
the option of moving closer to the CC in my state is largely cost prohibitive for a struggling student—if you want to factor that idea it…it WOULD be cheaper to stay on campus at R-NB by far.
some students MAY turn into unicorns tomorrow too but that doesn’t make it an absolute.
for the record, I am as anti loan as one can be, but for some full payers who are just trying to keep their heads level with the quicksand, it may be a reality, like it or not. but I too am baffled that they don’t understand the ramifications of doing it, or in some cases, the amount they signed for!
I get the impression that a lot of students posting here frown on CCs, and a lot of parents posting here frown on CCs for their own kids. But, also, it seems that frowning on CCs is related to frowning on one’s in-state public universities, since CC students’ transfer targets are most commonly in-state public universities. I.e. a NJ resident student who wants to go anywhere but Rutgers or other NJ public university won’t want to go to a CC so that s/he can transfer to Rutgers later.
On the other hand, it seems more accepted in CA that if you do not get into your desired UC or CSU (and most students in CA consider UCs and/or CSUs to be reasonably desirable, unlike the “anywhere but Rutgers” NJ students), or have difficulty affording it starting as a frosh, starting at a CC is a reasonably acceptable way of getting a second chance and/or saving some money.
Kind of related to who’s on the forum …
If you’ve made up your mind to go to a CC or nearby state u, you’re probably not having anxiety over what your chances are for Shiny U that’s 3 states away so maybe you don’t need advice (or to offer it) here and are happily getting on in life.
My guess is most of us here either are, or have children who are looking at schools not in their own backyards. For some it may be a prestige thing, for others a value thing, but either way, we’re trying to share and ease each others’ angst.
We are looking at things like having my son do a co-op, where he makes money, get work experience, and we don’t pay tuition and he doesn’t take out a loan, while still in college. Or graduating early because of AP credits and taking local CC courses.
There are ways to cut costs. But some people do not understand that it is not normal to have to get $40,000 worth of loans each year. They think everyone is doing it and they have no choice.
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For my D’s in state tuition and fees, it is $19,108 for this year. With R&B etc, the CoA is ~$33k.
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Wow @billcsho What state is that??? and what are those “fees”?
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There are ways to cut costs. But some people do not understand that it is not normal to have to get $40,000 worth of loans each year. They think everyone is doing it and they have no choice.
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Yes, we’ve seen posts like that. Recently there was a mom who actually said that they would have to borrow a large amount ($40k??) each year no matter where her son went to school…and they were lowish income! She was letting him choose OOS publics where he’d get no aid/merit.
Was her position true? Uh no, not at all.
And she’s not the only one. There are people out there that truly think that EVERYBODY is borrowing huge amounts for their kids’ colleges. I have a cousin whose college senior has been attending USC fully on loans. My cousin thinks everybody does that. She’ll have over $200k in loans after he finishes this year. BTW…he was offered enough merit to have gone to Santa Clara at half that cost…but he wanted USC.
“ironically, until this thread, I thought that CC’s were largely frowned upon here…of course its generally a cheaper option and a perfectly respectable one–really, more people should go that route.”
It is a route that makes a lot of sense. Imho, it really should be the model across the country. But for most middle class families (except maybe in CA) it is considered pretty unattractive. So if very few other kids from your middle class high school are doing that path, you don’t want it either.
There are some great deals out there if you go that route. In Virginia for example, you can get guaranteed admission to UVA for 3rd and 4th year if you attend a VA CC and get a 3.4 GPA. You get the same UVA degree as everyone else but at a very low cost and with a much easier admission path.
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to a directional state university (highly ranked) and about 15 miles away, but ironically requires EVERY freshman to live on campus, no exceptions. At that point, why pick the directional in town that would cost the same as any other school in the system, including the flagships?
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Very good point! Why would someone choose their local state school if they must live on campus? They might as well start at their flagship, and if it becomes unaffordable the following year, then transfer back to the directional and commute.
UAH tried to make that “frosh live on campus rule” and there was such an outrage that the school backed down. Families were choosing UAH simply because their kids could commute to the school and only pay the lowish cost tuition, fees, and books.
The point of these “local univs” is for locals to go to college (live at home, etc). Otherwise why bother sprinkling public univs across the state???
The CSUs and the UCs were purposely sprinkled across Calif so that people could commute to college.
While many of us want the “sleep away” experience for our kids, in most cases it is a luxury choice. BUT, it’s not necessary in order to get a good education and have a successful life.
