<p>i think ut is harder to get in oos because they are more objective, whereas ucla is more holistic and take many things into account. why is it harder to get into ucla from tx btw?</p>
<p>I don’t really see how you’re saying you got in “comfortably.” I mean… if you’re accepted, you’re accepted. But yea, the main reason for the difficulty of getting into UT is what loneranger said. This year 80% of the students consist of ONLY top ten percent Texans. The other 20%ish is for non-top ten texans, transfers, out-of-state, and internationals. There’s someone here who got in UC Berkley OOS but rejected from UT.</p>
<p>Also, whether you applied early or late, it doesn’t matter. Everyone is considered the same. I mean if you applied late like… maybe Dec/Jan … then you pretty much heard back the same time as every other OOS students (Feb/March)</p>
<p>Because at UT if you are in the top ten you are guaranteed admission. At UCLA you aren’t and a lot of UT top ten kids would be rejected at UCLA.</p>
<p>If you aren’t in the top ten, I have no idea, but it’s probably about the same.</p>
<p>“UCLA is harder to get in to if you are Texan, if you aren’t it’s a lot easier.”</p>
<p>isn’t the comparison OOS from tx versus other states? maybe you meant what was explained in the last post.</p>
<p>^yea i think might have worded that weird… makes it sound like …“If you’re from TX and apply to UCLA, then it’s difficult. But if you live in Alabama, then it’s a bit easier…”</p>
<p>Getting into UT OOS, is like getting admitted to UCLA, UM Ann Arbor, or Cal OOS.
Congrats you should be proud of yourself…search the forum…
I’ve seen multiple threads that have Bright kids…who you would think have a great shot…and got rejected INSTATE.
Many go like this “I’m Top 11%” and they still get rejected…I’ll try and sum up a thread in a sec.</p>
<p>oh well…I couldn’t find the actual thread I was looking for…
<a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/college-admissions/482006-where-did-you-not-get-you-thought-you-should-have.html?highlight=11%25+Chinese+rejected+Texas+instate[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/college-admissions/482006-where-did-you-not-get-you-thought-you-should-have.html?highlight=11%25+Chinese+rejected+Texas+instate</a>
there is one there…
look at post number 36… and the quote he had in that post…
<a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/university-texas-austin/479436-does-means-rejection.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/university-texas-austin/479436-does-means-rejection.html</a>
post 9, Internationals are viewed the same as OOS
<a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/university-texas-austin/478113-my-advice-non-top-ten-oos-juniors-applying-ut.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/university-texas-austin/478113-my-advice-non-top-ten-oos-juniors-applying-ut.html</a>
Post 2, 18…
you get the drift…</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>There is a serious flaw in your reasoning: the caliber of students that apply to Cornell and UT OOS are NOT the same. </p>
<p>There is no way UT is harder to get into OOS compared to the ivies. However, the honors programs might be. I know a few people that got into CMU, MIT, Caltech, but were rejected from UT’s Engineering Honors.</p>
<p>^
mmm… UT is starting to look like UC Berkeley, UVA, UCLA, and UM Ann Arbor…every year…
UC Berkeley has an acceptance rate of about 25%, for OOS it goes down to 10%…
The Caliber of OOS students coming to UT is probably similar to that of the Ivy Caliber School (IE: HYPS+ Brown, Cornell, Rice, Dartmouth, Colombia, U Penn, Duke, UNC, Caltech, etc).
but the top 10% rule is killing out of state admissions, so while the stupid top 10% people may be admitted, most of top 10% kids are bright…
Even if the 10% law is turned void, Most kids will still be from Texas because we pay taxes to fund the state…and UT is owned by the state…so at best for OOS…the 10% rule will be voided after a couple of years between 0-5% OOS admissions, and then it will turn into a UC Berkeley…
They two universities are too similar…Liberal, Diverse, Young People’s city, large, top tier university.
I think those are the biggest most popular Public Universities… the big four:
UCB, UCLA, UM, and UT…probably UNC and UVA too
really and truly, the USNWR rankings only mean so much</p>
<p>Anecdotal evidence is far from definitive, but I go to what is considered one of the best public high schools in Texas, so the top ten percent rule is killer. I have a friend with a 2100+ SAT, top 12%, who got CAPed at UT. I will assume they use the same criteria for non top 10$ in state and OOS. The top ten percent rule completely chokeholds UT admissions, and as a result MANY deserving students get rejected. As said before, it is actually a disadvantage to go to a competitive school, especially in state. </p>
<p>But anyways, to relate to some previous posts, I have too many friends who got into UCLA, USC, UCSD, yet are summer schooled and CAPed at UT. Getting into UT as a non in state top ten precenter is getting more difficult each year. As said before, UT DOES NOT use a holistic approach when evaluating non top ten percenters or OOS candidates. However, individual honors programs/schools within UT might have their own criteria for evaluating prospective students.</p>
<p>Not Necessarily, a well deserving student(not calling your friend un-deserving, but I mean the ones who are really top notch but are just shadowed by the competition) at a competitive high school will get in. So you have these Harvard Kids applying who just aren’t in the top 10%+ the 10% kids…which makes it a crap shoot if you’re smart.
So As a result, the OOS students are top top notch, so UT end up getting better students then it deserves, which is quickly boosting its rank in both World and US colleges by 1-4 spaces a year.</p>
<p>do most non-UT people think that UT is comparable to UCLA, UCB, UM, UVA, UNC, which by many are considered the elite state schools (UT is probably on this list as well)? All of us know that, even at the UG level, many of UT’s departments are far better than those schools. For example, UCLA, UVA, and UNC’s engineering programs are ranked much lower (or just lower in UCLA’s case), and UCLA and UNC’s business programs are notably lower than UT at the undergrad level. But do people outside of Texas know this? For example, despite UT’s high prestige in the business world, can UT grads really find jobs outside of Texas? From what I hear, that’s rarely the case.</p>
<p>Btw, I hope I’m not sounding like I’m bashing my future school, from my above statement, and me previously questioning how hard it is to get into OOS. I’m just really frustrated that friends of mine that got into UCLA who honestly probably had no business getting in OOS are bashing UT, and think UCLA is better despite the fact that UT and UCLA are a wash for pre-med, and UT’s eng and business are way better. In fact, I truly believe the only schools better than UT as far as state schools are UCB, UM, and UVA (non-engineering).</p>
<p>Most non-UT people would probably put UT a shade below those schools.</p>
<p>According to US News we deserve to be in a region with schools like Penn State, Florida, second-tier UCs, and Illinois.</p>
<p>But the peer ranking of UT is significantly higher than those schools (a 4/5) and based on that rank UT would be low 20s or high 30s. So people in academia think that UT is just as good as those other schools.</p>
<p>UT is good in everything, but I would say is strong in business, communications, and engineering. However, as Liberal Arts and Natural Sciences tend to have the highest enrollments, they are what makes the reputation of a school. While UT certainly has good LA and NS programs, they are not comparable to the elite public universities. UT’s honors programs, however, are absolutely the best in the country. The only comparable program I can think of is Echols at UVA. The UCs don’t think it is necessary for them to offer honors programs, so you will be in a large class with people who may not be at your intellectual level (ELC kids).</p>
<p>UT grads absolutely can find jobs outside of Texas. The thing is, most don’t want to! Texas is a great place to live: great weather, great food, great culture, and great economic opportunities. There is really no need to move away to an area with worse weather and a higher cost of living when you have two world cities and 3 of the ten largest cities in the country in Texas. </p>
<p>UT also has a much larger enrollment than any of the other top schools and must take many top ten percent kids who wouldn’t get a second look at Berkeley. Thus UT serves not just to educate the best, but to give the best education to a large number. I firmly believe that if UT chose to enroll only 23,000 undergrads instead of 39,000, UT would have a reputation as good as Berkeley’s as well.</p>
<p>I do think that UT’s reputation is rapidly moving up and I think that with a lot of the changes occuring in the undergrad curriculum (the signature courses in particular), and improvements being made in the COLA and CNS, people will think of Texas in the top 3 public colleges in the United States.</p>
<p>
no…we are actually 1st tier, but just a ‘weak’ first tier. we rank 44, and the top 50 are 1st tier, and the top 40 are the strong 1st tier.
So UCI, UCD are 1st tier too…but, in terms of prestige. UT is bigger then and of the UCs except Cal and UCLA, which some would argue is debatable…for better or worse. if you want to stay away from a big university, UT is not for you…but seeing as UCLA isn’t exactly puny in terms of student body, this shouldn’t pose a problem. UT has the largest Student body population in terms of university in the country (and probably the Continent) but I know for sure the country.
yes, my father though. Who grew up in Michigan and attended of one of, what I like to say, the big four (Cal, UCLA, UT, and UM)…UM. Thought before the ranking of USN (which have been criticized for being calculated rather stupid, I personally think there is some truth to the general rankings) that UT was better then Rice… He would of wanted me to go to UT over Rice prior to this knowledge, although knowing this now I’m not sure what he would want me to do. UT is strong, and if you ask most non-Texans on the bored, they will shade UT a light-mid rank below Cal and UCLA (debatable UM, UNC, and UV… I think its a thing CA got working for it, many people want to go to CA so they get brighter students in general) but they will tell you to go to UT over UCD or UCI.</p>
<p>
As a native Texas, I will partially disagree. You can easily find a job outside Texas with a UT education, which is true…But same with UCLA, Cal, UM, UV, and UNC…but as he state many choose to stay.
Not because of the weather, food, or Culture… although those can debatable under being “AWESOME” or “Jeez…that’s stupid”
What keep OOS kid in Texas, is that Texas is becoming New California.
the weather may not be as constant, but you get a whole lot of !!!BANG!!! for you buck. Chances are, you will not be the only Californian coming, many ‘instaters’ will be from California as many families who can no longer take the high cost of living in LA and San Fran are moving to Texas. So what keeps the people here is that a home that goes for $200,000 here goes for 2 Million in California. The Texas economy is sky rocketing, and while the national economy is taking a dip, the Texas economy (like the CA economy) is not. The only difference is that I’m pretty sure Texas is gaining people faster then any other state, and the economy is also progressing faster then most states.
so while the ‘food’ and ‘culture’ is cool, the prices are even cooler. I heard a litter bottle of coke there costs 2 bucks…here its like 79 cents.
But its ultimately up to you, if you agree with your friends about UT, then go to UCLA, but…if you think UT is better…come, you won’t have problems making friends or enemies…LOL…UT is sooo diverse…from sk8er kids, to Gangstas, to preps, to nerds, to jocks, to beach boys (without the beach), to non-denominational…LOL
Post in the more general forums, see what non-UT/Texans and the non-UCLA/Californians think…
They’ll probably say UCLA is better, but thats cause UT is building its rep. Listen to them though, they’ll bring up some good points.
I think you should come to UT, cause you should join the UTlution :D(revolution…except with UT).
but…really…do what you want…</p>
<p>The overall rank of a university is pretty meaningless for the individual. I would be more concerned about job prospects for your particular major.</p>
<p>strangely, I’m a Texan and I still believe UT is 2 tier (not by USN Rank because I personally believe we need to look at a lot of different ranks with separate criterias) below the true elites. In my eyes, I view UT as a 3rd tier public school (yes, OMG). The first tier consist of the big 3 who constantly rotate with each other for the top public school- UM, U of Va, UC Berkeley, UCLA. The 2nd tier consists of UNC Chapel Hill, UW-Madison, UW-Seattle, UIUC, UCSD, College of William and Mary. Then 3rd tier in my mind is UC-Irvine, Penn State, U of F, UT Austin, UM-College Park. </p>
<p>Personally, I think the board is overrating UT quite a bit. While I agree that the difficulty of getting in from OOS, but I don’t neccesary agree with the prestige (even though there are some massive talents who survive the 10% rule). UT Austin may have some talent on par of the elites, but the school as a whole is far from as prestigious as the 1st tier and still a shade below my 2nd tier.</p>
<p>Well of course people on here are going to think highly of UT, it’s a Texas board.</p>
<p>I beg to differ ahsie. I agree that UT is not at the Berkeley/UVa level yet. I disagree with placing UCLA in that tier–the admissions stats in CA clearly show that UCB is a shade above UCLA.</p>
<p>And while I resepct your opinion, I disagree with your assessment of UT as 3rd tier. UT is academically superior to those schools in many ways.</p>
<p>You claim not to be using US News rank, yet your tier system is almost entirely using US News ranks but dropping several schools. Do Cal Davis, Georgia Tech, and Cal Santa Barbara, who are all ranked as equal or better than UT by USNWR, not merit tier rankings? What about other strong public institutions such as Minnesota, Indiana, Ohio State, and Michigan State? They are just as strong as your “third tier.” Simply, you’ve provided no way of how you “ranked” them, yet they fall almost exactly into US News order.</p>
<p>The US News poll is incredibly biased against public universities, and in favor of the Ivy league (it’s creator says he knows it works because “Harvard and Yale always come out on top,” ignoring the fact that that happens because of how he designed the tests). Cal Berkeley, in particular, is far superior to at least half of the schools ranked above it.</p>
<p>Looking at the peer rankings, assesments of the schools by other academics, gives you insight into what the nation’s universities think of each other. Cal Berkeley is a 4.8, the second highest peer assesment given, and behind only Princeton, Havard, Stanford, and MIT, yet is ranked #21 overall. UT is a 4.1, which is beaten by only 22 schools, yet is 45 overall. I think the academics know a lot about the universities and their strengths, and here UT shines aboe such schools as W&M, UIUC, UWash, and the vast majority of the UCs.</p>
<p>Another key factor of the US News poll is “faculty resources,” which rewards schools for having small classes. You simply cannot pull this off at most public schools, yet the rankings offer no reason why this is inherentlybetter. It does not consider the fact that UT’s course offerings are the broadest in the country, that not even Ivy league schools can match what UT can offer in its size.</p>
<p>Admissions selectivity is another criterion which is used, and this also is inherently unfair. Sure, it shows that they take top kids, but at the top schools almost EVERY applicant is qualified and would make a fine addition to the campus community. But the schools restrict class sizes, so they can’t take everyone. UT takes more than most however, and also must take a large number of applicants by law, which NO other school has (Cal has ELC, but shuttles these kids over to Riverside and Merced). Other factors such as retention ranks and things such as “endowment per student” hurt large public schools.</p>
<p>For this reason, you see schools like Berkeley and UT rank in the top 5 and 15, respectively, of world universities, and not in the top 20 of the US.</p>
<p>Simply put, UT’s faculty is top-notch, as good as any in the country. UT has strong overall offerings. It’s specialty schools, such as McCombs and Comm and Engineering, are very strong. The COLA and CNS aren’t at the top level, but have been improving in faculty hires and overall strength every year. UT also has one of the strongest grad schools in the country, and a lot of this strength comes out into the undergrad programs.</p>
<p>Many schools you list, particularly W&M, are good schools, but are simply not the same sort of school. William and Mary is a large liberal arts school. It does not have the size or issues found at a major university. The Ivies and most private schools as well.</p>
<p>I agree that UT is not as strong as UMich, UVa, and Berkeley, primarily because we are larger. This means that our Liberal Arts and Natural Sciences schools aren’t going to be as elite and they will see larger classes than the top tier schools.</p>
<p>But I think you will find in reputation and academic offerings that UT is every bit as good as the schools that in your educated opinion you have deemed “second tier.” You’ve left many strong universities out of that group (namely Georgia Tech) and made some interesting inclusions (namely Washington, a strong school but not at the same level, and W&M). There is a reason the elite schools consier themselves peer institutions: they are all at similar levels and styles of education.</p>
<p>Yes, UT people will overrate their school, just as Berkeley kids will tell you it’s as good as Harvard and Stanford (which is true, in my opinion), just as Rice kids will tell you it is as good as any Ivy (more of a stretch there).</p>
<p>But you are really underestimating UT. The schools you are placing it with are solid, yes, but lack the resources and breadth and depth that make UT one of the elite public universities of the US. It isn’t Berkeley or UVa yet, but give it 20 more years of the growth of reputation it’s been experiencing (no one would have placed UT even on this list 20 years ago), and UT certainly will be one of the three best public schools in the United States.</p>
<p>I’m certainly not saying UT CAN’T become a UC Berkeley in 20 years or so, but that’s not the point because I’m talking about UT as it is right now. </p>
<p>Actually, the set of universities that I grouped together is a combination of ranks that I’ve seen. Yes, while the ranking does look a bit like USN, but the order of public universities is still relatively the same. And I’ll be the first one to tell you that I also believe public universities are underrated by USN (which is one of my biggest complaint), but UT is certainly not the 2nd tier when you look at the international ranks. In the most prominent international ranks I’ve read, UT is ranked 38 (Academic Ranking of World Universities) and 27 (Newsweek International) and certainly not 5-15 as you claim. The only 2 schools in 5-15 is UC Berkeley and UM-Ann Arbor. U of Va’s rank just absolutely sucks internationally for its poor reputation (which is considered) internationally, but it is also consistently ranked up there in the US ranks (not just USN), so I felt it was fair to include U of Va. As for UCLA, while I agree UCLA is a shade below Berkeley, but I didn’t feel it was fair to place UCLA in the 2nd tier as UCLA is also clearly superior to them. In the end, I gave UCLA the 1st tier because it’s general rank is closer to the 1st tier than the 2nd tier. </p>
<p>After you get past the elite 1st tier in the international ranks, you consistently see the same set of schools ranked somewhere between 15-25 internationally and those universities compose of UW-Madison and defitnitely UW-Seattle (why you claim it’s not in the same level is beyond me. UW is one of the nation’s best research universities and is consistently one of the top 5 most cited school. Look at Faculty Scholarly Productivity Index, which is more credible than USN.), UIUC, UCSD. From my memory alone, I remember UW Madison is 17, UW-Seattle is 16, UIUC is 26, and I don’t remember UCSD. While there may be a slight disparity of the ranks with Newsweek, but they generally still fall within the same categories and range.</p>
<p>Here comes the 3rd tier. Now, looking at the group I placed UT Austin with (U of F, Penn State, UM-College Park), UT Austin does seem a bit too strong for this tier, but like UCLA where it was stuck between 2 tiers, I had to push Austin to the tier that it’s more generally ranked closer to. That tier is usually the 30s-50s internationally (a list of ranks I’ve seen include 39, 38, 27, 24).
This list consisted of UC-Irvine, UC Santa Barbara, U of F, Penn State, and definitely UM-College Park (UM is always 1-3 ranks away). So yes, UT is better and in reality more in between the 2nd and 3rd tier I’ve created, but I pushed UT slightly toward the 3rd tier because ranks in the 24-40 area is still a shade below the 15-25 represented in the 2nd tier.</p>
<p>THES ranked UT as 15th in the world in 2005 I believe. They’ve dropped off a bit recently, but UT still uses 15th to promote itself. That was 2nd of all public universities behind Berkeley. After that they separated UT and UT Southwestern, which brought UT down. I don’t consider them to be the same university, but I do think that UT Southwestern should be used as part of UT/UT System’s place as it’s the number one medical school for UT grads in terms of number of matriculants.</p>
<p>UVa is well thought-of nationally because national reputations tend to hinge quite a bit on age and the strength of the College of Arts and Sciences. UVa is exceptional there. For UT’s age of only 125 years and the fact that it has such large and not elite colleges of liberal arts and natural sciences, their rank is outstanding. The only school that has had an even more impressive rise is UCLA, who have come from essentially being a community college as late as 1919, as well as having the largest student body by far in California, is simply amazing.</p>
<p>The research ranks are something entirely different and are much more grad-focused. UT does very well here, as does UWashington, but UW’s undergraduate school is simply not that impressive, whereas UT’s is a notch above. US News doesn’t even measure faculty research output, which is what THES does, and is more of a measure of a schools “undergraduate strength,” or really more “how like the Ivies is your school.” UT has a very strong though not exceptional undergraduate offering, but it’s graduate schools are in the very top of the school.</p>
<p>All I can see is you are throwing out random numbers to justify a ranking that you’ve completely made up. And you’ve had no rationale whatever: you justify raisng UCLA on your scale “because it’s closer to those schools” yet place Texas down a tier on your own scale.</p>
<p>Using the FSPI as a measure of a school’s worth is riddiculous, to be frank. All you are really doing is measuring how many publications can be churned out by the school, ignoring things like the ENTIRE STUDENT BODY. Again, UT is hurt by numerous factors under this scale, specifically the fact that it’s med school is independent (and highly ranked by FSPI, as well) and that it’s strength does not lie in the arts and sciences which are the primary focus of the FSPI.</p>
<p>I agree with you that UT is not Berkeley. But I don’t see why you’ve completely let us hijack this thread to demean a school. UT is an outstanding institution, and simply it’s faculty’s productiveness or it’s academic rank by a newsmagazine that has no particular expertiese in tertiary eudcation. One of UT’s main draws are the non-academic factors, such as the weather, the social atmosphere, and the people, which really are unmatched at any top-tier institution.</p>
<p>The fact is that even by combining ranks, you can’t get an accurate picture of the worth of a university. When US News ranks UCI as 42nd and Shanghai 34th and THES as 96th in the world but Washington Monthly as 8th, you have an issue that defies categorization.</p>
<p>The fact is, that of it’s designated peer institutions, the only schools UT really ought to care to compete with, UT is probably directly in the middle. Berkeley, Michigan, UCLA, and UNC are definitely above it–though the gap, particularly between UNC and UCLA, has been rapidly closing. Wisconsin, Illinios, Washington and UT are all about the same level if you look at their size as well as their overall strength. Then would come Ohio State, Michigan State, Minnesota, and Indiana in the back third.</p>
<p>UT does not even try to compare itself to schools like UVa, William and Mary, or the smaller UCs because they are different types of universities. They are much much smaller and don’t deal with the same issues, particularly with selectivity.</p>
<p>If UT were as small as Berkeley, it would be one of the top 3 public institutions in the US. With only 60% of the undergrads, Berkeley can focus much more on undergrad instruction as well as research, whereas UT is burdened with larger numbers of undergrads. UT could be largely kids who were in the top 5% of their graduating class and all have 2100 on their SAT easily. Instead, it offers a first-class education to a large number of students, something I think is very admirable.</p>
<p>And finally, I will give a shameless plug to UT’s honors programs, which are without peer in the United States. I challenge you to find a school offering more diverse and well respected honors offerings.</p>
<p>This link is old, but according to these rankings based on Faculty Quality, Student/Teacher Ratio and Student Quality, the rankings would go something like this…</p>
<p>Tier 1 – Berkeley
Tier 2 – UCLA, Michigan, Wisconsin
Tier 3 – UCSD, Illinois, Minnesota, UNC, UT, UVA, Washingotn
Tier 4 – Georgia Tech, Ohio St., Penn St., Rutgers, Maryland</p>
<p>[A</a> RANKING OF UNDERGRADUATE SCHOOLS](<a href=“http://www.utexas.edu/law/faculty/bleiter/Undergra2001.html]A”>http://www.utexas.edu/law/faculty/bleiter/Undergra2001.html)</p>