<p>It’s true that it won’t likely be essential to admissions but it’s never a bad thing to have four years of a foreign language. I think that, if it’s possible, continuing a language during the college years is a good idea. Being able to communicate in another language is always a positive on an actor’s resume, in addition to it being a positive, in general.</p>
<p>I don’t want to imply that HS courses and rigor of curriculum are unimportant in the college admissions process. But ultimately it’s the strength of your overall application and possibly the audition that will be the deciding factor. </p>
<p>My S’s GC at his Senior appointment in Sept read his application and essay and said he’d get into all the schools he was applying to. This is the same GC that said just 8 or 9 months earlier that he wouldn’t get into any of them if he didn’t take Math! And for the colleges he applied to that specifically stated they wanted to see 4 years of Math on their website…well maybe Admissions missed it but it’s way more likely that he presented a compelling enough application to compensate. They aren’t looking for clones!</p>
<p>There are many benefits to speaking a foreign language and for continuing your study of it, “required” or not. I can also see two possible benefits of taking a foreign language for 4 years even if you really don’t WANT to. The first is to place out of it as pointed out in an earlier post. But for the OP, I can tell you that with Fordham’s new core you probably can’t place out anyway and the best you can do is place into an exit level class. The second is that many people lose whatever foreign language knowledge they had if they don’t continue using it. So if the college requires a foreign language (and OP…Fordham DOES) and you don’t remember it you may end up starting all over. But at that point you may decide you are better off taking another language altogether if you didn’t like the language you took in HS.</p>
<p>These are things to consider but otherwise, don’t worry how it will look if you really can’t take another year of it. Take what you are interested in and just do well in that! That will look a lot better on your transcript than a poor grade in a class you didn’t want to take! :)</p>
<p>Oh…and amtc, my younger S is like your Ds! An 8th grader who HATES French, can’t stand anything about it! As soon as he finishes the HS requirement in 10th grade, he is DONE. As much as I value the idea of him knowing another language, I’LL be glad when it’s over and I no longer have to listen to him complain about it! :)</p>
<p>I asked a similar question on NYU’s admissions forum regarding dropping an academic for an art class. My d is interested in Studio Art. They said that even though it is a portfolio review, that they wanted 4 years of all academic subjects to make her competitive (language, math, science, english and social sciences.)</p>
<p>^^Ironic because NYU was one of the schools my S just got into w/o the 4th year in Math!</p>
<p>sandkmom, although it may seem ironic, it’s a good idea for students, in general, to follow any curriculum recommendations that colleges make. NYU has always recommended four years of the core academic subjects, including foreign language. This doesn’t mean that no one will get in without following those recommendations. There are going to be kids every year whose overall application package is attractive enough to be accepted without one/some of those recommendations but not all kids will fall into that category. :)</p>
<p>I have to say at this particular moment I don’t remember if my D had 3 or 4 years of FL, but she had exceeded what was required to graduate from HS. However even wth all As in French she knows zero. My not very informed take would be do what is necessary to get out of HS and more if possible but if you kid hates languages don’t stress over 3 years or 4 year.
Although D did not apply to the most competitive academic programs, as this was not in the cards or interest, she was academically accepted into everywhere she applied with a mixed record - 5 years of HS math with Cs, As in other courses whether she learned anything or not.
Yes it probably helps the D is a minority, from a large urban district who “optimized” what was available but in the end, in the college process they seemed more interested in who she was as a person than what the record showed. I cannot speak to getting into highly selective academic schools, nor will we know how much being a minority really helped, but as a family with a current graduating senior, if there is a good reason why you don’t choose 4 years of FL (kid hates it, bad teachers, difficult scheduling…) just go with it and have your kid be prepared to explain why it was a good decision in their circumstances.
just my 2 cents.</p>
<p>Just a quick remark about Latin. Our son has taken it all four years in high school. Loves it. Has received Honors Awards for it. Not a spoken language person per se. But I can tell you it is on his artistic resume under “special skills” ever since SPRING AWAKENING. To those who know the show, Latin is used prominently in a particular scene in the show. Since then, I think casting directors take note, lol!</p>
<p>Oops. Reread my late night post and see that I wrote “Not a spoken language person per se.” Which may or may not make sense, lol! Meant to write Latin is “not a spoken language, per se.” My son doesn’t have much opportunity to speak the language outside of class. It is, after all, a dead language. Still, it has strengthened his overall speaking and writing skills and he has enjoyed it. He’s dabbled with other foreign languages on his own (using Rosetta Stone) and hasn’t found them particularly easy. He was accepted ED to NYU, and I’m sure his straight As in Latin and his National Honors probably looked pretty darn good to them. Still, he took Latin because he likes it. It really does help to have an affinity for a language. Something I never had in high school!</p>
<p>BvilleLady,
I bet that Latin expertise helped your S on the SAT’s, too! My S also had an interest in it and gave up a lunch period as a Soph to take a 1 year Latin/Greek course…they ended up discontinuing it altogether after that year because they didn’t have anyone who could teach it anymore! A second career possibility for your S! 
I was actually thinking of learning German again through Rosetta Stone now that the deposit is in and I don’t have to keep any more college search/application/audition info in my brain! </p>
<p>alwaysamom,
I ABSOLUTELY 100% agree with you that everyone should keep in mind curriculum recommendations when planning their schedule! Just saying that they are just that, recommendations. It’s not like my S was looking to put one over on admissions when he chose not to take math! And it’s a different concept then say, not sending SAT II’s to colleges that required them. My S felt that overall his application, GPA and rigorous curriculum which included 9 AP classes throughout HS would be and was, in fact, enough to compensate for his not taking math as a senior. I think that people can easily get caught up in trying to put together the perfect profile for college admissions and lose sight of the fact that there is really no such thing! I also believe that learning and studying something because you WANT to is equally and probably even more important than studying something because it looks good on paper. JMHO with too much time on my hands! :)</p>
<p>I agree with Sandkmom’s comment in Post #30. My son was accepted at Tisch after having taken no science or math senior year. He had been toiling for three years in honors and AP classes (he chose to have no lunch periods any of his four years of high school) and felt he needed a break to focus on college auditions, etc. </p>
<p>He ended up being class salutatorian (out of 300+ students), even without those two extra AP classes. Senior year, he took String Ensemble and Creative Writing instead of the second year AP Physics and AP Calculus classes that many of his peers were taking, and he was very happy with the decision.</p>
<p>However…given that this is a language thread, I must add that my son is very much a languages person and took three years of Latin and four years of French in high school. Schools of theatre almost certainly care more about languages than math/science, though in the end it is all about the audition…the audition…the audition.</p>
<p>NJTheatreMOM agrees with my comment in Post #30…that I have too much time on my hands! :D</p>
<p>The importance of four years of foreign language differs depending on the academic selectivity of the college to which you are applying. The more academically selective schools do prefer to see four years of all the academic core subjects, including foreign language. This is less important at less academically selective colleges. My rule of thumb would be to take the most challenging academic course load that you can manage in high school as overall, it will serve you well in college admissions. </p>
<p>I am a little concerned that some may take the anecdotes on this thread as a commentary that four years of foreign language is not necessary for the more academically selective colleges. Is it possible to get admitted without four years of FL? Of course, as some anecdotes here prove. But my concern is that you can’t take this one factor in isolation from these anecdotes. Some anecdotes here have kids who got into Northwestern, Yale, NYU, etc. without four years of FL, BUT these students could have had so many other strong things in their profile that compensated for that…for example: high class rank (someone mentioned salutatorian), high SATs, very high GPA, many AP classes, etc. You can’t just take the “had only two or three years of FL” out of these anecdotes without looking at their entire academic profile which may have been very strong in so many other respects. In other words, a kid who had a lower GPA, lower test scores, lower class rank, and a less challenging academic HS course load, may look worse with just the bare min. number of years of FL on top of all that (or another person’s example of no math in 12th grade). It is the OVERALL PICTURE, and not just one factor in isolation. If you have a very rigorous academic curriculum with high GPA and rank, missing the fourth year of FL may not derail admissions chances at all. In another scenario, it could be a negative among other weak aspects. </p>
<p>As far as my own kids, they accelerated in French so that by the end of junior year of high school, they had completed French 5 (five years of HS foreign language credits). D1 then did a for credit independent study French 6 in senior year. D2 graduated after junior year. They both got into competitive colleges. Neither of their colleges where they attended (Brown and NYU) required foreign language classes in college. D who went to Brown, took French placement test in college and placed out of several levels of French and CHOSE to take French all four years of college (again, no FL requirements), as well as was a TA for French, though never majored in it. She is fluent in French and has worked three summers in France and so knowing French was a real plus (she may be working there next year as well). D2 did not choose to take French at NYU. But I do believe showing a very strong HS course load including five years of FL made her academic profile strong, considering she also graduated HS at 16 and so was able to show a very strong HS preparation for college despite only going to HS for three years (another example is she was in AP Calculus as a junior). Does this mean you HAVE to do all this? Not necessarily. But for very academically selective colleges, a strong HS curriculum can only help.</p>
<p>“A strong HS curriculum can help” - but somehow we need to find additional time next year for traveling, auditions, rest…something has to give; I just don’t know what, exactly.</p>
<p>I would not “give” in the area of academics. I don’t think it is easy, but many kids manage to take the most demanding curriculum, train in acting/singing/dancing, be in musicals, do other extracurriculars, apply to college, and attend auditions. It is a lot to do, but not only did my own kid do it, I have been along for the ride with many others that do too.</p>
<p>Not everybody is the kind of person who can do everything. Some have suggested that the student involved in college auditions not perform in shows senior year. </p>
<p>I couldn’t have convinced my kid to do that, though. Luckily his academics were strong enough that he could ease up on them a bit without jeopardy.</p>
<p>Another thing that helped was that National Honor Society was willing to count my son’s community theatre involvement as “community service.” I posted about this on CC once before and there were several people who didn’t like the notion of slacking off on “real” community service…but as I said…not everybody is capable of doing everything.</p>
<p>The original question was about the importance of 4 years of foreign language. I’d like to offer another perspective. My D took 3 years of Spanish in HS to satisfy the minimal standards to graduate. She had 3 different teachers and very poor instruction due to the first teacher’s maternity leave and multiple substitutes the first year and then just poor instruction the following 2 years (one teacher taking medical leave and the other the golf coach). She had no difficulty being accepted academically to programs. She has ended up in a BA program which requires 4 semesters of a foreign language and she attempted to test out unsuccessfully. This will require her to take all 4 semesters of a Foreigh Language. She has chosen to take Italian - maybe she will land an Opera job at some point and did very well with Italian diction in her music diction class. Yes, I think she would have benefitted from having 4 years of a foreign language that she truly learned the language and was able to get AP credits or test out of a few levels in her current program. Just my two cents…</p>
<p>If your student has any facility for languages at all, I think 3 years of Latin would look far better on applications than 3 or 4 years of French or Spanish.</p>
<p>In many high schools, including ours, modern languages are taught to a very low standard. My son took AP 4th year French his senior year and NONE of the students in that class, including him, made higher than a “1” on the AP test…whereas he had previously won medals for his scores on the National Latin Exam.</p>
<p>No one could be more in favor of learning languages in HS than I am. I took 4 years each of 2 languages when I was in HS, giving up a lot of other classes to do so, and I loved it. I can get by OK in Spanish still today, but don’t ask me to say more than a few words in Russian, sadly!</p>
<p>Fast forward to my girls: we have 7 hours in a day at our HS. Typically there are 5 academic subjects: math, English, social studies, science and FL. My girls are very serious about music - 1 hour each for band and choir. But there’s PE, too, and at least one other semester long class required each year to graduate (Health, a Voc class, etc.). And each of them has been in an honors music class - the older in Wind Ensemble, and the younger in Chamber Singers. So FL does end up being hard to schedule.</p>
<p>As at NJMom’s HS, our FL programs are “meh” at best, and they’ve decreased the languages offered in the past 5 years from 6 to 2.</p>
<p>The older one took German 1 in 10th grade and decided she’d do it independently as a jr to fit it in. She took a home-study course through UW and worked her butt off - turned out they covered 2 of our HS years in 1, and I needed to pay a tutor weekly to help her through it. She was a very motivated student and managed to qualify for and take German 4 as a senior. I would think the determination she showed helped her in her application to a top university. She did place out of 3 semesters at college, but they require 6, so she took 2 years there anyway. I’m wondering if the extra load she carried as a jr to make this happen was really necessary, though.</p>
<p>D2 started Spanish in 8th grade, fully intending to take it to AP level by senior year. But the teaching was awful and she missed Art, so she stopped in 10th grade. Colleges we’ve visited have said she’s fulfilled their expectation of 3 years, and not to worry about it. She tried to do some independent work this year with a native speaker here (no way was she going to do that same home-study course -not worth the pain and suffering!), considered going to the tech college to keep it up, but theater and other rehearsals in the evenings made it too difficult.</p>
<p>She’s sad about it, but FL just ended up having to be sacrificed. I guess we’ll take our chances with college. Honestly she’d like to try a new language (she also loves opera and would like a year or two of French or Italian). We offered her language camp, but she’s always preferred music or theater in the summer. They just can’t do everything, and kids like her also know their limits.</p>