<p>"‘Females and URMs don’t need as high SAT scores.’</p>
<p>Since when are you the judge of what anyone ‘needs’ to get into MIT?"</p>
<p>Don’t go attacking me for stating a blatantly obvious truth. I have nothing against all you females and URMs that got in. I would play those cards too if I had them.</p>
<p>A healthy attitude will give your application a much bigger boost than any gender or race possibly can. What were you, deferred? All of my good friends who applied to any top school early got deferred or rejected (for some of them it is MIT, and yes, many of these are URMs/females with great stats as well), and I hate to say this, but I’ve never heard someone whine so much as you. I know it’s hard to even be deferred from a place you love but one month later, it’s just about time to channel that anger and indignation into something positive and constructive. When you stop making bitter excuses and blaming everyone else but yourself for the decision, then I think you’ll have a great shot at the school. There’s obviously been a good amount of debate over the issue, especially on matt’s blog, and I think I’ll link a comment I posted in one of the older entries. It sums up my opinion on the issue rather neatly.</p>
<p><a href=“http://blogs.mit.edu/madmatt/posts/3234.aspx#3829[/url]”>http://blogs.mit.edu/madmatt/posts/3234.aspx#3829</a></p>
<p>And best of luck to you in the regular decision round, theleet. And just remember, we don’t have to extinguish other people’s flames to make ours burn brighter.</p>
<p>And gospurs - don’t let anyone tell you you got in because you’re a URM. You, like all the other admits, have fought for and earned your place in the class of 09. Personally, I believe in the majority of cases, blacks and hispanics have to overcome many more obstacles than whites and asians do in order to even have the chance to apply to a school like MIT. I know for a fact that most of my friends who are black or hispanic who have competitive scores have worked much harder for them than I have, and kudos to them for that, they deserve more credit than I do.</p>
<p>Hmm…I consider myself bold to be applying to MIT with the following scores:</p>
<p>SAT I Math: 750
SAT I Verbal: 590
SAT II Math IIC: 720
SAT II Chemistry: 630
SAT II Writing: 640</p>
<p>Good luck to all applicants!</p>
<p>thanks pebbles…i didnt have to work very hard for my scores, but i definately have not had the easiest upbringing</p>
<p>i know i got in on merit, it just bugs me when ppl say those things</p>
<p>"A healthy attitude will give your application a much bigger boost than any gender or race possibly can. What were you, deferred? All of my good friends who applied to any top school early got deferred or rejected (for some of them it is MIT, and yes, many of these are URMs/females with great stats as well), and I hate to say this, but I’ve never heard someone whine so much as you. I know it’s hard to even be deferred from a place you love but one month later, it’s just about time to channel that anger and indignation into something positive and constructive. When you stop making bitter excuses and blaming everyone else but yourself for the decision, then I think you’ll have a great shot at the school. There’s obviously been a good amount of debate over the issue, especially on matt’s blog, and I think I’ll link a comment I posted in one of the older entries. It sums up my opinion on the issue rather neatly.</p>
<p><a href=“http://blogs.mit.edu/madmatt/posts/3234.aspx#3829[/url]”>http://blogs.mit.edu/madmatt/posts/3234.aspx#3829</a></p>
<p>And best of luck to you in the regular decision round, theleet. And just remember, we don’t have to extinguish other people’s flames to make ours burn brighter.</p>
<p>And gospurs - don’t let anyone tell you you got in because you’re a URM. You, like all the other admits, have fought for and earned your place in the class of 09. Personally, I believe in the majority of cases, blacks and hispanics have to overcome many more obstacles than whites and asians do in order to even have the chance to apply to a school like MIT. I know for a fact that most of my friends who are black or hispanic who have competitive scores have worked much harder for them than I have, and kudos to them for that, they deserve more credit than I do."</p>
<p>Please stop trying to put me down, I have in no way attacked you personally as you are attacking me. I’m sorry you can’t accept the fact that mit favors females and URMs in admission. That is my point, and it is true. I don’t care if it allows for a diverse campus. MIT should stop calling itself a meritocracy if being female or URM are considered “merit.”</p>
<p>I aplogize for the old information but here:</p>
<p>" US News info for Fall 2002:
acceptance rate: 14% EA, 16% overall
EA acceptances make up 28% of freshman class
10664 applied, 1724 accepted, 978 enrolled
males: 7696 applied, 898 accepted (11.2%), 558 enrolled
females: 2968 applied, 826 accepted (27.8%), 420 enrolled
out of state: 91%
379 on waitlist, 296 accepted place on waitlist, 37 enrolled from waitlist
middle 50% SAT verbal: 680 to 760
middle 50% SAT math: 740 to 800"</p>
<p>source: <a href=“http://www.collegeconfidential.com/cgi-bin/discus/show.cgi?8/83989[/url]”>http://www.collegeconfidential.com/cgi-bin/discus/show.cgi?8/83989</a></p>
<p>Oh my, the admission rate for females is nearly 2.5 times that of males! I guess now is the time you argue that females are more qualified than males. In this age of equality <em>I use the term loosely with regards to MIT</em> males and females should be presumed equal in caliber. I guess females that apply to MIT are just head and shoulders better than the males that apply!</p>
<p>Oh My! MORE BREAKING NEWS!</p>
<p>MIT uses race in admissions!</p>
<p><a href=“http://www-tech.mit.edu/V123/N29/29admissions.29n.html[/url]”>http://www-tech.mit.edu/V123/N29/29admissions.29n.html</a></p>
<p>Looks like my point that MIT favors females and URMs in admissions is shaping up.</p>
<p>C’mon Bush! Stack thou Supreme Court with conservatives!</p>
<p>Straight from the horses mouth!</p>
<p><a href=“http://www-tech.mit.edu/V119/N13/admissions.13f.html[/url]”>http://www-tech.mit.edu/V119/N13/admissions.13f.html</a></p>
<p>“MIT also has an active commitment to affirmative action. We do have affirmative action at MIT which means that we will admit every qualified African American, Mexican American, Puerto Rican and Native American student in our pool, Jones said.”</p>
<p>Anyone else want to argue my point that MIT favors females and URMs in admission?</p>
<p>theleet is absolutely right. Admissions office have secret stuff that they don’t tell the public. Don’t be so gullible and naive. It’s the real world here, don’t expect direct justice.</p>
<p>theleet, you will actually find that many times, the female applicants to mit ARE very qualified, so don’t make judgments until you actually SEE their applications, not just their test scores or other stats. In fact, URM test scores are better than the average. It says it right there (in the same website you quoted from):</p>
<p>The mean SAT scores of our minority undergraduate students are higher than the mean SATs for all of the students enrolled in the Ivy League. In short, these students are the best in the U.S. - Marilee Jones</p>
<p>As admissions officer Ben Jones has said, don’t make arguments based on race, sex, or anything like that. You don’t even know anything compared to admissions officers who actually see the WHOLE application. Instead, you’re simply making judgments on the information available to you, which quite frankly, isn’t that much.</p>
<p>Of course. Hopefully, if you’re bright enough to apply to MIT, you know how the world works, and that nothing is obviously as straight as it seems. However, things may not be as evil as you exaggerate it to be. It simply saddens me that you allow yourself to be so wrapped up in such a preoccupation. Remember what I said about channeling that energy into positives instead of creating justifications for yourself? Cast your bitterness aside. Go help the poor or something. </p>
<p>This WILL be the last I will post on the issue, since we’re obviously never going to get anywhere.</p>
<p>You may have perfect test scores, but they mean nearly nothing in the American “elite” college system. They will take every “qualified” URM, but they WILL take every “qualified” Asian American as well. How would YOU define “qualified”? Test scores? In China, maybe. But here, the admissions process works a little differently. You may have SAT scores 100 or even 200 points higher than a black or female student who was admitted, but does that make you a more “qualified” candidate? I know for a fact that some do not value test scores as much as others. Your SAT scores are most likely higher than mine, but I studied the week before the test (6-7 hours total). Does that mean you are a more qualified candidate than I? No, it means nothing. Nothing at all. The asian race, in general, places much more emphasis on test scores than, say, the African American race - as an example, my cousin arrived in the country 3 years ago and through INTENSE STUDYING and ridiculous number of SAT classes, raised her SATs from an 870 to a 1340. Blacks on the other hand, may choose to participate in choirs, sports, human rights activities instead of cramming for the test. Is either method wrong? Absolutely not. But should we place more emphasis on the test than the passion? I sincerely do not believe so. If you were to pull up a chart displaying the average Asian admit’s SAT scores vs. an average black admit, you would obviously see a discrepancy. I would not use that to make any generalizations about the relative “qualifications” of the pools, though. I sincerely hope you understand my point. In life, no, nothing is fair. But rarely are things as black and white as people like to make it.</p>
<p>I was going to let your posts slip by like I do so many others on Affirmative Action and the like, and I honestly don’t know why I bother. I guess in the corner of my mind I was hoping to open up your mind a little. Through all the people I have encountered in my human rights and relations work, the most basic thing I learned is to keep my mind open and my eyes open. One does not need to hinder the other. You can perceive things in your own way with your own eyes, be it truth, distortions, or illusions, without denying yourself access to other schools of thought.</p>
<p>EDIT: Before you pull the race card out on me again, I’m Asian as well.</p>
<p>I’m not arguing that they aren’t “qualified.” I’m just saying that it is easier for them to get in. I have never said that females are not qualified. That is true that I don’t see all the information. I would like to see complete statistics, but MIT doesn’t release those.</p>
<p>Puh Leaze. Thank god that is your last post on the topic. You are the most condescending person I have ever met. First of all, stop “inferring” (in this case it is more ASSuming). </p>
<p>“Hopefully, if you’re bright enough to apply to MIT, you know how the world works, and that nothing is obviously as straight as it seems.” </p>
<p>yes, life is not fair.</p>
<p>“However, things may not be as evil as you exaggerate it to be.”</p>
<p>how do I exagerate when I say discrimination is bad? Got Civil Rights Movement?</p>
<p>“It simply saddens me that you allow yourself to be so wrapped up in such a preoccupation. Remember what I said about channeling that energy into positives instead of creating justifications for yourself? Cast your bitterness aside. Go help the poor or something.”</p>
<p>Condescend some more please. You don’t know me. I’m sorry that seeking the facts is considered “preoccupation” to you. Knowledge is a positive for the intrinsic value of learning the truth. The poor can help themselves, I have me to help, thank you very much. (take that as arrogant as you want, nobody looks after youself but you). </p>
<p>“This WILL be the last I will post on the issue, since we’re obviously never going to get anywhere.”</p>
<p>goodbye to you.</p>
<p>“You may have perfect test scores, but they mean nearly nothing in the American “elite” college system. They will take every “qualified” URM, but they WILL take every “qualified” Asian American as well.”</p>
<p>no they don’t, hence how MIT says that they would be able to fill multiple equally qualified classes. They don’t take every qualified Asian or white person. The quote explicitly says they take every qualified URM. It can be inferred from this that they don’t take every qualified non-URM. And, this is confirmed by MIT, “qualified” studnets get rejected all the time. </p>
<p>“How would YOU define “qualified”? Test scores? In China, maybe. But here, the admissions process works a little differently. You may have SAT scores 100 or even 200 points higher than a black or female student who was admitted, but does that make you a more “qualified” candidate? I know for a fact that some do not value test scores as much as others. Your SAT scores are most likely higher than mine, but I studied the week before the test (6-7 hours total). Does that mean you are a more qualified candidate than I? No, it means nothing. Nothing at all. The asian race, in general, places much more emphasis on test scores than, say, the African American race - as an example, my cousin arrived in the country 3 years ago and through INTENSE STUDYING and ridiculous number of SAT classes, raised her SATs from an 870 to a 1340. Blacks on the other hand, may choose to participate in choirs, sports, human rights activities instead of cramming for the test. Is either method wrong? Absolutely not. But should we place more emphasis on the test than the passion? I sincerely do not believe so. If you were to pull up a chart displaying the average Asian admit’s SAT scores vs. an average black admit, you would obviously see a discrepancy. I would not use that to make any generalizations about the relative “qualifications” of the pools, though. I sincerely hope you understand my point. In life, no, nothing is fair. But rarely are things as black and white as people like to make it.”</p>
<p>Wow, talk down to me like a FOB Asian please. Me know nothing about admission process, you teach me lot. Me dumb asian boy, you smart girl that got into MIT, you nice to teach me about admission process. When did I ever say SAT scores made a person qualified to go to MIT? Your entire argument is based on that. I never said that scores made somebody qualified as implied by your rant. Not only that, but you have reinforced an Asian stereotype, and the stereotype that Black people don’t study. And, you managed to pat yourself on the back yet again with the “I only studied 6-7 hours.” Nice! </p>
<p>“EDIT: Before you pull the race card out on me again, I’m Asian as well.”</p>
<p>You say that like I care.</p>
<p>Whatever the case is, it’s beyond our control right now. Just present to them who you are and if you don’t want you for that, then there’s no point of going. Don’t make this whole thing such a big deal. Even though it may seem like that the adcoms are controlling your next four years, they really cannot control your destiny. If you are smart and have great potential, you will suceed no matter where you go. If you don’t think it’s fair, do something great in life and make them regret it.</p>
<p>yes manchu, I look at it that way too. </p>
<p>Oh dear, pebbles has failed to reply to all the holes I poked in her argument. Seems that our resident feminist has a history of running away from these admissions arguments when in a bind, especially after pulling BS arguments out of no where…</p>
<p><a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/archive/index.php/t-4528.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/archive/index.php/t-4528.html</a></p>
<p>I believe she made it clear that her post above would be her last in this thread.</p>
<p>yes, and it was a convenient time to leave.</p>
<p>I think every one of your SAT scores should be over 700 regardless of what race or gender you are. Since your score is already over 700, it’s not really a big deal. Affirmative action does come in here though. If you have the stats and numbers and you are a minority, you will most likely get in. However, if you are Asian, you will have to stand out even more.</p>
<p>…</p>
<p>and i thought this was supposed to be a thread about SAT scores? =/</p>
<p>…
[same reaction as doublespresso]</p>
<p>the AA thing has been flogged to death, both here and on matt’s blog. if you’re going to keep beating the issue, at least do it in your own thread.</p>