<p>Honestly, there are many kids with a 3.5 GPA and an SAT of 1980 who would have no problem doing the work at Harvard. But they’re not going to be admitted. The question is, how many apply?</p>
<p>When I look at the results threads (such as the one for Yale RD, which I was looking at today), the typical rejected student looks, to me, to have a GPA between 3.8 and 4.0, and an SAT of around 2100. He or she has pretty good ECs, but they mostly in the local school. Most of them are accepted by really good schools in the next tier. Maybe these aren’t typical, because these are CC kids.</p>
<p>I wish the Stanford numbers broke down 600-699 in the SAT categories into 600-649 and 650-699. I suspect that those admitted are not at the bottom of the 600 range.</p>
<p>The $64,000 question would be; What exactly constitutes a “legitimate” applicant?</p>
<p>If you did not have the opportunity to do so, I would recommend that you read the Overachievers, by Robbins</p>
<p>From p. 202</p>
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<p>One of the main reasons that a kid with perfect scores would be rejected or waitlisted at any “elite” school is because when reviewing their applications, the admissions committee may reach concensus that this student would be better suited somewhere else.</p>
<p>At the end of the day, schools are looking to build a community of learners. It will not always be about who has the highest gpa or SAT score, as there will be places, for artist, poets, dancers, computer geeks, good deed doers and those who just plain folks with the potential to do extraordinary things coming from various walks of life.</p>
<p>I think the numbers quoted are a gross over-estimate, based on what the universities want you to believe. The reality is it is entirely in their interest to have as many applicants as possible, and of course they will also want you to believe they are almost all high calibre too.</p>
<p>Having sat on way too many graduate school selection committees, at an Ivy, a State, and now Canadian school, I can tell ya…you see all kinds of applicants. The vast majority go quickly in the out pile and its no where near as low as 10%. I don’t buy the rhetoric of undergraduate colleges at all.</p>
<p>Yes the folks on CC are well informed. As are many school counsellors. But many many parents, and kids have little understanding or they figure “what the heck” (like buying a lottery ticket).</p>
<p>I guess I feel that there is some middle ground when people talk about elite schools and acceptance rates. In my opinion, there is a huge difference between the top 10 or so universities and top 5 LACs in terms of acceptance – and then anything lower. At the very top, there can be no guarantees (leaving out the truly extraordinary) - you may get in nowhere or everywhere even with 4.0 uw, 2300+ SATs and very good (human, not superhuman) ECs. Those same students will probably get in every school that they apply to below that level. By the same token, the chances for a 3.5 uw, 2100 (or lower) SAT and average ECs student at those top schools without a major hook are approaching nil. Those same students probably have a very good chance at the remaining top 25 universities and LACs (still possibly a reach, but why not try if you can stand the possible disappointment. And if you can’t stand disappointment, then you shouldn’t apply to any school that <em>might</em> reject you - and you means “the student”, not “the parent”).</p>
<p>It isn’t likely that Harvard or Williams will see an unhooked student with a 3.5 uw GPA and accidentally let them in. But that same student might get in to UMich, Rice, JHU or other top schools. As the parent you gather whatever information you can about the acceptance rate and academic statistics of a given school, see where your child measures up statistically and give him/her the good/bad news. Even if you think that they can’t handle disappointment, at least let them make that decision after receiving the best information you can give them.</p>
<p>I think JHS’ statistics are close to correct and you have to factor in that some students will not chose to apply to the top schools for a variety of reasons, including parents telling their children that they have no chance - when perhaps they do.</p>
Well, maybe. But those plain old accomplishments are not a 3.8 GPA, an SAT of 2000, and editor of the school newspaper. He means a 4.0 GPA, an SAT of 2300, and very good ECs in the school and community. Harvard does take kids like that.</p>
<p>Thank you JHS for pointing this out. Top applicants (and their parents) need to remember this in order to keep their sanity, especially on C.C. </p>
<p>People here tend to focus on the negative. True, lots of top applicants are disappointed every year but thousands are accepted to multiple top colleges every year. The same results threads that describe applicants rejected by multiple ivies also contain many posts of applicants accepted into multiple top colleges. </p>
<p>Yes, I have seen the “Andison” thread, but that thread is famous on CC precisely because it was such a rare event- a top applicant not getting into any college from a fairly reasonable list. You wouldn’t be able to create much of a thread on the story of a top applicant that got into H, Y and P and his/her safety.</p>
<p>" Others (like HYPS, and Ivies in general) are appealing to everybody because of their prestige, and relatively easy applications."</p>
<p>Ivies aren’t appealing to “everybody.” The dean of admissions at Harvard has said that 90% of applicants qualify for admission in terms of gpa and test scores.</p>
<p>I’ve been a Harvard alum interviewer, and it has been rare that I have interviewed a student who lacked the stats to be admitted at Harvard. The one case that I can think of was a student who was stellar in her inner city school, had strong grades, the most rigorous curriculum possible at her school, and had extraordinary ECs, but had test scores in the 500s for each part of the SAT. She clearly was extremely bright, but through no fault of her own lacked the academic background to do well at a place like Harvard.</p>
<p>She ended up going to a 2nd tier public, and did so well there that she got into a difficult to gain acceptance to graduate program at NYU.</p>
<p>My daughter knew a kid like that who was accepted at Wharton, with a ton of supplemental academic support pre-enrollment. A really extraordinary kid – there was an article in the paper that basically described him as the greatest kid ever, and my daughter said, yeah, after meeting him, it took her about 5 minutes to decide he was the greatest kid ever. 4.0 unweighted GPA, toughest curriculum at his (bad) school, did everything at the school including wearing the mascot costume at sports contests, came from really, really mean streets and refused to let that affect him in either direction – participating in street culture, or condemning it as a way of separating himself. Extremely well-spoken. 1100 SATs (out of 1600).</p>
<p>" Others (like HYPS, and Ivies in general) are appealing to everybody because of their prestige, and relatively easy applications."</p>
<p>Ivies aren’t appealing to “everybody.” "</p>
<p>No kidding. Especially in parts of the country where the brightest go off to the State U’s and don’t sob over the Ivies! Good lord, the Northeast-centricism gets thick at times!</p>
<p>I agree with starbright, post #24.
No experience with college admissions yet, but just looking at what some people consider top grades, top EC makes me think that starbright is right on .</p>