<p>It does dismay me that the onus to take on burdens in order to help students is being placed by many people here on the people being something like minimum wage, rather than on the schools not providing adequate classes and sections.</p>
<p>Sylvan–I think your case described here is of course an example of an exception. Overall, though, it seems really unfair to blame instructors, often adjuncts, for the penny pinching decisions of the schools.</p>
<p>edit: cross-posted with mominizer.</p>
<p>I teach four classes of frosh comp between two schools. One caps at 18, one at 19. Filled to capacity, that’s 74 students. 4 or 5 papers for each student, depending on school and comp 1 or 2. 3 drafts of each paper. Numerous shorter written assignments. A portfolio at the end of each class of the students’ work. I’ll let the math majors figure out absolute numbers here :), but let’s just say that expecting me to go over cap is NOT a matter of putting a camera in the classroom and broadcasting it (nevermind also that classes are hands on, discussion based, etc.)</p>
<p>Garland, there are several issues. First, putting this on students, labeling this as irresponsible may be unwarranted. Maybe Sylvan’s case is exceptional, but in many schools, not getting into a class is not necessarily indicative of student being irresponsible. A blanket indictment of students for need for override is not going to muster support from parents. Second, if adjuncts are poorly paid and/or not fairly compensated for extra students, maybe THEY should take it up with department head. Very few students or parents have control over this – but this type of blame the student reation is not going to help with those parents who are on parent’s committees, etc. As I said before, restrictions may prevent an override, but blanket calling students irresponsible, or saying that there are few cases where the student is not at fault is not fair.</p>
<p>stradmom:
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<p>garland:
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<p>glido:
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<p>Raising the cap helps a few students short term. What happens long term and big picture? Colleges frequently use adjuncts because they can pay them less and avoid benefits entirely. Tenured positions can be cut. Some part-time PhDs are paid Star Bucks sorts of salaries. Depending on your point of view this may be a positive or negative for higher education. If an adjunct is willing to teach double or triple loads for the same salary, I’m pretty sure the administration will be pleased and decide to only hire this type adjunct. Overall the work environment for PhDs looking for teaching positions becomes even more challenging. It will be interesting to see what happens when professors make lectures available on-line. I am already aware of at least one case at a “directional” college where the professor who developed an on-line course is long gone and TAs run the class. Sometimes the TAs aren’t even in the field being taught. They are only grading so what does it matter. A computer program does most of the work.</p>
<p>Kayf–I’m not saying students are irresponsible. no matter whether they are or they aren’t, doesn’t change the number of available seats–and that should be the province of the school administration, not the underpaid adjunct.</p>
<p>If students can’t get into their required courses then they can also take it up with the administration. They are the customers. A very good reason for not going to a college like that. Not sure why it should be the professor’s problem.</p>
<p>Just to be clear, I do support fair treatment of adjuncts. IMHO, there are far too many highly paid admin and unfair treatment of TAs and Adjuncts, in many cases.</p>
<p>I think that schools can and do communicate to students how to obtain an override. If the first option is to go to instructor, then they should do that.</p>
<h1>46 oldfort: Some students will have no other options for college. Most professors want to help their students. Like sylvan, their natural inclination may be to go above and beyond. However, when they allow themselves to be taken advantage of, it may potentially change the whole playing field for the profession. I am not sure it is beneficial to students in the end.</h1>
<p>I have a friend who has literally been teaching for free at times. The school even refused to pay her parking one term. She wanted to be sure a few students managed to finish a degree. There is always one more deserving student who needs help.</p>
<p>One of my kids is a senior major, well respected in a smallish dept, and got blocked from a popular jr-sr level class in the first hour of online registration. She did know seats were taken by non-majors. She pleaded (probably made a good case as this was a class directly tied to her interests.) The answer was no. The wait list was already long; she also asked if she could be bumped to the top, as a sr major. No. That’s how it sometimes rolls. She’s at a top LAC.</p>
<p>I don’t think we should go too far with how OP could lose her position if she doesn’t take all the kids who want in. Even her dean said, just take 2-3. Sixty kids for sections capped at 20 = 3 sections. This is the U’s problem, the U has the power to add a section or, in effect, tell all those extra kids, sorry, not our plan.</p>
<p>We can feel for these kids- but we can’t work miracles.</p>
<p>
I find this rather humorous. In academia we rarely have people looking over our shoulders like that. The Department Chair frequently asks how things are going and whether I need any resources or anything, but it would be odd if he were to “monitor” how long it took to grade the homeworks and exams.</p>
<p>Sylvan - that is interesting. Don’t most universities at least consider teaching ability when deciding on tenure? Even if it may not be the most important criterion? Usually the classes of junior faculty are visited by more senior faculty? Reports written and sent somewhere? Also all those student evaluations? How does this correspond with adjuncts? Are they monitored in the same way?</p>
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Maybe that’s the problem. I would imagine students would complain if they can’t get in touch with professor or get their tests back on time. I know my kids would, and I would too as a paying customer.</p>
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<p>That sounds ridiculous. A sensible registration priority system would give priority to those students who have the course as a requirement for their major to graduate.</p>
<p>re: looking over shoulders: we’re circling wide now. The neither ignore how profs operate nor watch them like hawks. Effectiveness is more than how fast emails are answered or whether the tests come back by the next class or so. OP isn’t on a tenure track. She’s one prof trying to make the best of a difficult situation and looking for feedback. And, I think, assurance. </p>
<p>ucb- it annoyed her. I don’t want to sidetrack, but these things do happen. It was a popular class, of interest to her, but not vital.</p>
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Of course. And last semester the Chair attended part of one of my classes (with plenty of notice of course) and wrote a brief report of his observations. Students did evaluations at the end of the semester, and one of the professors did a pre-and-post “test” that they use to track how well the students are grasping the concepts. </p>
<p>But there is no one coming in to ask “Did Sylvan give you homework this week? How long did she take to get it graded and back to you? What about the exam?” One of the eval questions is whether feedback is prompt, but that doesn’t really go to the type of “monitoring” that oldfort seems to be suggesting.</p>
<p>BTW, I nearly always have homework/exams graded by the next class period (labs often take longer), and an additional 6-8 papers would hardly cause a drastic change to my ability to get the grading done in a timely fashion.</p>
<p>“I think that schools can and do communicate to students how to obtain an override. If the first option is to go to instructor, then they should do that.”</p>
<p>This is buck passing par excellence on the part of the administration. The first recourse should NOT be ‘sweet talk the adjunct.’</p>
<p>Momizer – if you do not like the system, then YOU should take it up with department chair or admininstration. Painting studens with a broard bush is not the right answer.</p>
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I expressed concern several times about the state of the capacity situation with the physics course. When I asked the Chair, he said to admit several, as there are always some drops. After the semester started, I asked the support services professor about the space situation (he’s in charge of lab equipment, room stuff like chairs, etc.) and he said “oh, so-and-so had the room fairly packed last semester, there are plenty of chairs.” So I admitted a few more. Then the Chair came in and said that student X really, really needed to get in, so I was admitting another one. I turned away a couple of kids who looked like they could take it over the summer or next year. Then there were the “special cases” and another one from the Chair. Now I’m over the cap of 24 by at least 7, maybe 8. </p>
<p>I told the Chair that I would be willing to teach a second section next time, but it’s a problem because of the adjunct credit cap.</p>
<p>Sylvan, I think what’s coming through is that you do care about these kids, do feel you can stretch- and do hope it won’t happen again. Some of this is just beyond your control and I wish you the best. Good chance several will drop out. Having seen DH go through this (humanities,) it’s just something that happens sometimes and you do what you can, next go 'round. Best wishes.</p>
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<p>Are you in a situation where there are more students who want/need to take certain classes than funds to pay for those classes to be taught (except perhaps with overloads)? Or is it a situation where they just aren’t able to pay you, an adjunct, to teach more than a certain number of classes?</p>