<p>Oldfort, at my DDs school, they gave her overrides to get into classes. And didnt call her irresponsible for needing them. She didnt have difficulty, and neither she nor I had angst. I have explained this.</p>
<p>kayf - you do seem to keep on bringing it back to transfer students, so I can’t help but think that’s the core of your issue. If you are good then let it go.</p>
<p>Oldfort, I can not imagine every reason why a student might need an override. I am just saying to blame it on kids not signing up in time is not always fair. Maybe someone changed a major. Whatever. The core of my issue is I resent instructors lumping everyone in one class – late to file students, or whatever. I have explained this.</p>
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My core issue is for you to lump all professors who do not want to do over rides as unfeeling, uncaring, unprofessional, undeserving to teach at the public school where your daughter goes to school.</p>
<p>Old fort, as I have said repeatedly, instructors at my DDs school did not call her irresponsible for asking for an override. I do not know how many times I have to say that. Of course, not all professors think that kids need overrides becuase they are not responsible. I thought I was clear I was responsding to a comment – not that I think every instructor feels that way – when I clearly said not all instructors take that approach. </p>
<p>Dont know why you think my DD goes to a public school, she doesnt.</p>
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<p>An adjunct is only equipped to deal with his/her own section of a course, which as I said later, is the only thing I am addressing. In my case, students have enough time to register. The issues transfer students may face in being closed out is (or should be) beyond the purview of an adjunct. The responsibility for the well-being of these students shouldn’t be dependent on the good graces (or not) of a non-tenured faculty member.</p>
<p>Thanks for the quoting instructions, Sylvan!</p>
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I don’t have an attendance policy, oldfort, so in theory it is the same for all the other students. Anyone in the class can decide to show up for the exams and shove their homework under my door. But I would not suggest the option that they could work on their own without being confident in advance of their ability to succeed, and only did suggest it with the caveat that it depended on his own confidence level - in your view should the professor have no freedom to make judgments on their own?</p>
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Well that’s the crux of the problem, right? Adjunct pay is about $760/credit hour. The full-time non-tenure track pay somewhere around a flat $17K per semester. If you can get adjuncts at half the price of full-timers, you go with adjuncts. Lots of adjuncts.</p>
<p>kayf - if your DD doesn’t go to a public school then I mis-interpreted your post:
It really doesn’t matter whether it’s a public or private. I don’t think it is an issue here. The issue here is whether a professor (adjunct or not) should do overrides to fix an overall college problem of not offering sufficient courses for its students.</p>
<p>yes. It is like a question in the Ethicist column, Sunday morning, NY times.</p>
<p>I agree with kay that public school professors are tax payer employees but think it is up to the tax payers to be sure there are enough faculty. Voters can’t support cutting budgets and then expect professors to take up the slack… or can they? </p>
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<p>And if you can get adjuncts to teach large overloads and independent studies? fewer adjuncts? for the same money?</p>
<p>My H deals with this issue every semester. He teaches a core subject, he works very hard to make the classes interesting, and he is a great teacher. Therefore with that reputation, his classes fill fairly quickly. Every semester, he has admissions asking him to override for transfers, new students, etc. because they know the students will like his class. He accepted them many, many times over the years. Now he makes very few exceptions - usually for a student in the major or one who needs the course to graduate that semester. There are always plenty of other classes in his dept. which are no where near capacity that they could take. He teaches with a writing intensive style (which other teachers in his dept. don’t necessarily do) so every student he has requires a lot of work on his part. He goes over each and every assignment making numerous comments and corrections so the students have a complete understanding of his critique. When he overrides he is increasing that workload with no additional help or compensation. He has come to the conclusion that why should he have 75+ students a semester when others have 60 or less, and yet he is asked to put more in his classes?</p>
<p>He offered recently to run one of his popular courses at double the capacity, but then it counts as two classes in his teaching load. This has been approved and supported by the administration in the past, and filled (and he even allowed overrides) but apparently a faculty member in another dept. (whose classes are not full, btw) objected this time. The administration pulled the approval, so the course is just running at regular capacity, and he had to turn down students who asked to get in. </p>
<p>H has always been student centered and would do anything he could to help them. He didn’t look to be compensated for everything, he just did what he could for the benefit of the students and the college. But after 20+ years, with more and more added to the responsibilities, he has found he can’t do everything. The college asked him to do a major project for them. It was a project for which anyone should receive additional compensation. He didn’t ask (although I pushed him to), and they certainly didn’t offer. For the good of the college, he did it and did it during a semester while he had a full teaching load. I remember talking with some trustees after they had seen the completion of the project and were thrilled with it. They asked how he managed to do it in the time frame and he must have had release time. The President of the college was also standing in this group. I piped up, “No, he had no help, no release time, and he taught his full load at the same time.” The trustees were floored and the President quietly slipped away. </p>
<p>So overrides are not cut and dry. When H adjuncted, and in his earlier years of FT teaching, he did everything he could to be collegial and helpful to both the students and administration. But when you get burned often enough, you begin to find the limits of what you can and should do.</p>
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kitty - you should have added “and no stipend” :)</p>
<p>^^ My DH’s situation is so parallel. As he sees it, part of his salary is in consideration for the extras. Not always easy.</p>
<p>And it’s not always as easy as it sounds to say ask for more money, start another section- or even just turn the excess kids away. A Uni can’t always satisfy the needs of all kids, all the time, doesn’t always have the budget to expand, and there can be political and institutional considerations. OP’s school has fixed the number of sections- for whatever reason. I often think of the bigger Unis as mighty big ships in the ocean- not so easy to turn them around. Sometimes the Chair has a little extra in the budget to add a section, sometimes the U has already determined they won’t dance. </p>
<p>To say parents and taxpayers can revolt is simple. To actually have that impact on a public school is a layered process and takes time, and the money to pay for changes has to come from somewhere. Sometimes, the taxpayers have already complained and that’s how the pickle began.</p>
<p>Is physics a priority at OP’s directional? Apparently only to the extent of a limited number of sections. I personally think the dept head should be taking the numbers up the ladder, asking for the budget to meet the needs of the kids. But, that can be the black hole- what if the uni just can’t do it? What if historically, bio classes or nursing or writing support has higher priority needs? Right now, the only power Sylvan has is whether or not to fill the gap herself. But to ensure the Chair knows her input and that of other adjuncts. Unfortunately, this is the “behind the curtain” reality. And, yes, a shame. Sylvan, I admire you for caring.</p>
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<p>Great point!</p>
<p>Isn’t an important part of the job for full time faculty “service” - administrative work, committee participation, sometimes special projects? Isn’t this the usual expectation? However, if a department isn’t fully staffed, everyone has to do more service. So it isn’t just overloads in teaching? Usually adjuncts aren’t expected to do service, right? So they can’t fill that particular gap.</p>