<p>told her if you are not rejected somewhere, you didn’t aim high enough
I thought like this for a minute since D was accepted by all including her reach- but it was a great fit for her- although I think she may have liked attending someplace that wasn’t * such a reach* when all the classes are pretty rigorous and a lot of work, it didn’t seem like there was a lot of time to just enjoy the process.</p>
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<p>My question is what consititutes aiming high enough? My daughter was accepted everywhere she applied including her 3 reach schools (Dartmouth, williams, amherst) which I would consider reaches for everyone just based on the % of students admitted each year. She got admitted to her first choice and is very happy attending.</p>
<p>So does this mean that she should have aimed for Harvard, Yale or any of the other ivies even though she had no desire to attend and was not remotely interested? </p>
<p>I do think that this “aim high concept” is a big part of the problems with the admissions process as we know know it because so many students are going into the process with the aim high mindset and not doing the rest of the legwork (is this school a good fit for me, is it a financially feasible option for my family, etc). </p>
<p>Is it better to have aimed high, been accepted only to turn down the school because you know that the FA did not work out? I would think that that would be a worse scenario. </p>
<p>what does aiming high and subsequently getting a string of rejection letters suppose to mean because I am having a hard time wrapping my mind around this especially if the goal is to create a balanced list of schools with the final outcome being that the student is admitted to a college for the fall. I think that all this does is add another layer of stress to an already stressful process because then one gets caught up in a bunch of I should have and would have beens.</p>
<p>I would suppose that anyone who has a kid who was accepted into Dartmouth, Williams, and Amherst, does not need to pay any attention to advice that might fit the remaining 99.99% of the population.</p>
<p>I don’t see anything wrong with an applicant adding some super reaches, especially if they are academically driven and looking for the best possible opportunities.</p>
<p>I have no problem with the concept of applying to reach schools or even adding super reaches or looking for the best possible opportunities, I am just trying to understand the statement of if a student got accepted everywhere then they did not reach high enough.</p>
<p>would there be any point to adding super reaches if you are not interested in attending just for saying that you applied?</p>
<p>I wonder what percentage of applications to super reaches like the Ivies are applications from students that don’t want to leave any stone unturned.
I don’t even think my daughter considered them, she had clear criteria, and east coast prestige wasn’t on the list- but for people like those who should best remain unnamed who applied to Dartmouth-Princeton- Harvard- UPenn and Yale, it seemed like they were just throwing darts rather than thinking about what they wanted in a college</p>
<p>emeraldkity4, that seems to be true about reaches. I just wrote in another thread that my son has more matches on his list that are a good fit than the reaches are. If it were up to me and not the GC, I wouldn’t suggest he apply to any of the reaches, as I think it’s a wasted application. I doubt those would be his first choices if he were accepted. The match schools we’ve found also seem to be a better fit.</p>
<p>sybbie719, I would conclude if someone got into every school applied to, that the list used was a very good one for that student.</p>
<p>Applied to 9 schools in total</p>
<p>4 Ivies, got into 3
Rice, Northwestern, UChicago (got in)
Waitlisted at WUSTL and rejected at MIT!</p>
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I would never make such a broad assumption. My D can give you solid, well thought out reasons that every school was on her list. Her criteria had nothing to do with prestige or darts and her list undoubtably would have been quite different if SCEA had come through. In her own words…
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<p>Well, in defense of MaryC, I think that the “aim high enough” statement is what she told her daughter to console her when the rejection letters came in – I don’t think that was her advice out the outset.</p>
<p>I would also like to add a comment about a factor that impacts those of us in Calfornia. The reality is that the University of California has an excellent reputation, and students here have a choice of a number of different educational environments, though all are fairly large. Those of us who are parents of high-performing students can definitely view the system as a safety, and for most of us it is a financial safety as well. </p>
<p>Because of that, it makes little sense to seek a private education unless the college is perceived as better than UC. I remember feeling uncomfortable when my daughter’s list of private schools seemed so “reachy” – and then realizing that out-of-state, private “safety” colleges would likely fall very short of what the University of California could offer her. She had begun her college search by visiting some safety/match colleges on the east coast – American, GW, Goucher – but felt disillusioned after those visits. Now those are all very good colleges: but if the choice came down to any one of them vs. UC Santa Barbara – well, it would be very hard to justify a significant cost differential. So although my daughter paid very little attention to her safeties – she didn’t visit or look at brochures – I think that the unspoken understanding we had was simply that if things didn’t work out as hoped, she’d make a choice between Santa Cruz & Santa Barbara at the end, just like so many other California students do.</p>
<p>I agree in general with the idea that students should NOT be “aiming high” for the sake of prestige or competition, but rather should aim for the colleges that are the best fit. But my point is that for many Californian’s, there just is not much point to doing anything else, especially if the kid is comfortable attending a medium to large university. Our kids aim for the reach schools of UCLA and Berkeley because they might as well - they have filled out the form any way when they applied to their safety, the reach selection just involves checking an additional box. They aim for out-of-state reaches because the match/safeties often are just not worth the extra money given their choices at home. And that leads us back to the very common situation of the California kids who get rejected/waitlisted everywhere else , and end up at the UC campuses. That looks like bad planning, but it might just be that UC sets the bar very high for what we expect of a “safety”.</p>
<p>Calmom, for many CA students their safeties are the Cal States, not the UCs. It might be better to go to one of the top Cal States than one of the less competitive UCs.</p>
<p>* for people like those who should best remain unnamed who applied to Dartmouth-Princeton- Harvard- UPenn and Yale, it seemed like they were just throwing darts rather than thinking about what they wanted in a college*
“I would never make such a broad assumption.”</p>
<p>Let me tell you my reasons for doing so
Did not visit any of the colleges
the only colleges applied to were the above- plus two match/safties-
THe Ivies are very different from each other as some people realize, and while someone may be very interested in both Dartmouth and Colgate- informed students are notlikely to find the same atmosphere at both Brown and UPenn for example( oh I forgot one I believe the student also applied to Cornell-poor Cornell- I always forget it- left out Brown only becuase JFK jr went there 
)</p>
<p>For students who are less informed than the students on CC, there may seem to be two tiers of schools- I am going by overheard converstations- there are the state universities and Ivys-
State university is considered as fall back- but they have heard the Harvard name so often, that, that is where they want to go, whether they know much else or not.</p>
<p>MrsP – you are right – and my son will be going to Humboldt in the fall as a transfer, so I am well aware of the CSU option and the financial bargain it offers. </p>
<p>But my point is that with the statewide university system as a “safety”, at whatever level is chosen, there is no particular reason for a student to private tuition for a school that is of equivalent stature – so it can make sense for a kid to apply to only safeties and reaches. The private “match” colleges may be no better in terms of academic stature than the California “safety”, which leaves the value-conscious family following a reach + in-state approach.</p>
<p>calmom, there are other reasons to apply to a private school as a match school, size being one of them. The Cal States are large schools, as are the UCs. Several of the seniors I know decided not to go to Cal States because they felt they needed a smaller setting. They were willing to apply for aid, scholarships and loans to get that kind of attention. Their parents weren’t always happy, but some of the students got full scholarships.</p>
<p>I realize that there are other reasons for some students – my comment was meant to explain the reasons that many students would not choose to look for non-reach schools out of state. </p>
<p>Keep in mind that some of us are not made of money. I told my kids that they could apply anywhere they wanted, but that I would pay no more than the cost for attending college in-state. I could see throwing in a little bit more for a top-ranked college – but not for most of the private colleges that my d. would have considered to be “match”. It just doesn’t make sense to me to pay more money for a less-rigorous education at a less-well-regarded college.</p>
<p>This is complicated by the fact that we are relying on need-based aid, and the colleges that give the most generous financial aid and promise to meet 100% need tend to be the most selective. So to apply to “match” schools also means to aim for colleges less likely to provide adequate financing. To focus on merit aid generally means to aim lower – colleges usually only give generous aid, such as full tuition scholarships, to the students in the very top of their applicant pools, which means that the merit award is going to come from a college in the match/safety range.</p>
<p>This is why i enjoy cc: so many insightful comments. I made the aim high enough comment to my D because sometimes our kids are so used to succeeding, they can’t fathom the idea of rejection. Something we all have to cope with in life. We visited and thoughtfully chose our reaches, matches, and safeties. As many others on cc have pointed out: make sure you love your safeties.</p>
<p>I submitted 15.</p>
<p>calmom, can’t a qualified student get merit aid and outside scholarships?</p>
<p>How can students at 18 know without a doubt where they want to spend the next 4-5 years of their lives?</p>
<p>DD visited 8 schools in SoCal and OR(7 private, 1 public honors college) applied to 4 accepted at 4. 2 were good matches, 1 safety, 1 unrated (public honors college). Felt she had a good selection (all were her first choice) and was rewarded with good to great merit and other financial aid. Calmom, currently have a S at Humboldt and it fits him perfectly (he’s very involved with the geography dept.) Hope yours will be as happy there.</p>
<p>MrsP, for anyone who relies on need based aid, outside scholarships simply reduce the amount of the college grants. They are useful to replace loans, but they generally aren’t going to be enough to make the college affordable. Also, in most cases an outside scholarship is good for only one year - a kid who is relying on such outside resources for college is going to face financial barriers the 2nd year. </p>
<p>When finances come into play, the issue isn’t where the student “wants” to spend the next 4 years of her life – it’s a matter of choosing among affordable options.</p>
<p>calmom, I agree with you about the financial situation. That is one reason why so many students we know end up going to Cal States. The education is excellent. My son is looking at the Cal Polys and three others.</p>