<p>Good then you can explain the correlation between religion and
-Christian and Muslim persecution of pagans
-persecution of ‘heretics’, Islamic jihads, Christian crusades
-Christian persecution against Albigenses in France (launched by Pope Innocent, if you appreciate the irony of it), Spanish Inquistion
-battles between Catholics and Protestants (Huguenots vs Catholics)
-the Pogroms, witch hunts, human sacrifices (Hindu sect of the Thuggees- devotees of the goddess Kali…incidentally, thats where the word thug comes from)
-persecution of Catholics in England under Cromwell, Thirty-years War
-Islamic persecution of Bahaiis, human sacrifices by Buddhists in Burma (in the mid 19th century)
-Sepoy Mutiny in India where both Indians and European civilians were massacred
-the Armenian genocide, Hindu-Muslim strifes in post independant India (believe me this was bad- my family experienced it first hand)
-civil war in Sudan between Christians and Muslims, Jim Jones in 1978, Catholic terrorism in Ireland
-more Hindu-Muslim riots in Assam, Bahaii persecution in Iran, Buddhist and Hindu conflicts in Sri Lanka
-Sikh violence against Hindus (killing of Indira Gandhi), Hindu massacre of Sikhs
-Islamic terrorism vs Israel and any secular nation continues to this day
-Finally, Christians oppose life saving technology like abortion and stem cell research</p>
<p>Can you honestly say that religion has any less of a bloody past than does Communism or any other such movement? Or can you say that religion is benevolent and has benifited mankind? Can you oppose killing of innocents and still stand by your religion?</p>
<p>this opens up a whole nother debate which is very much alive in the united states today; i simply do not understand how the right believes it can impose its own religion upon national law.</p>
<p>trying to ban gay marriage, attempting to put creationism into public schools, opposing stem cell research.</p>
<p>W1cked, I am curious. How is abortion a "life saving technology? Hey, that is a paradox. Abortion, a method of killing unwanted babies, is a life saving technology. Hmmmmm…</p>
<p>when roe v. wade was passed, the crime rate dropped drastically. This is because unwanted babies (those who could not receive care and might thus turn to crime) were never born.</p>
<p>Read Freakonomics…it is really interesting.</p>
<p>Hey! Ever heard of death from childbirth? Abortions could prevent that. How about unwanted pregnancies? Aborting could improve the mother’s life. FYI, the fetus is a mass of protoplasm with no life.</p>
<p>The lives of those already on this planet are worth more than those yet to be born.</p>
<p>abortion does several things:
it prevents the parents from having to raise the child, for which many cannot handle financially.
lowering the crime rate prevents other deaths.
puts a stopper on the increasing amount of foster children, many of which lead miserable lives.</p>
<p>Let’s not stray from the true substance of this debate. Going off on tangents that relate to communism and now abortion will only lead us down a path with no end in sight.</p>
<p>Xe<em>Ln</em>Ag_A: Also, let’s try not to get into a political squabble over the right versus the left, democrat versus republican and conservative versus liberal.</p>
<p>Trancestorm:
“when roe v. wade was passed, the crime rate dropped drastically. This is because unwanted babies (those who could not receive care and might thus turn to crime) were never born.”</p>
<p>Really? I never knew that, thanks for pointing that out. However, we have to keep in mind that, regardless of any of our personal positions on abortion, justifying abortion because of a drop in the crime rate is understandable but erroneous. If our greatest endeavor was to lower the crime rate, then some would advocate the executions of all criminals so that they would never be able to commit crimes. In addition, some would advocate for the implementation of programs that would discourage the poor from procreating because their progeny often turn to crime because of poor resources.</p>
<p>*forgive me for straying back to the topic of the thread. heh.</p>
<p>I believe in God. No, I can’t tell you he exists. That is why I know he exists.</p>
<p>What kind of a God would he be if I could understand him, wrap my finite little human mind around him? If I could understand him, I would despise him and place absolutely no faith in him.</p>
<p>Please note, it isn’t an excuse for ignorance by any means-- I spent three years researching the scientific basis of intelligent design for a reason.</p>
<p>Xe<em>Ln</em>Ag_A:
I really wanted to stay out of an abortion discussion but oh well.</p>
<p>“abortion does several things:
it prevents the parents from having to raise the child, for which many cannot handle financially.”</p>
<p>Here’s a thought. Maybe they should never have had sex in the first place to have that child. Or call me crazy, but what about contraception? </p>
<p>“lowering the crime rate prevents other deaths.”</p>
<p>Maybe we should have all the criminals in the world exectued and maybe then the crime rate would go down drastically. How about that?</p>
<p>“puts a stopper on the increasing amount of foster children, many of which lead miserable lives.”</p>
<p>Have you ever heard of something called adoption. Ya, it’s where financially stable couples (there’s a lot of them in America) adopt and care for foster children so that they would not lead “miserable lives”.</p>
<p>contraception is not necessarily available. this is a serious problem in developing nations such as China and India.</p>
<p>In addition, adoption is not the quick solution that you believe it to be.
many children take years to be adopted, if ever. There are many times more available children to adopt than there are parents willing to adopt them.</p>
<p>There is a huge waiting list for HEALTHY WHITE BABIES - not crack babies or 6 year olds who have lived on their street cause their mom is an alcoholic living in the ghetto.</p>
<p>W1cked:
“Can you honestly say that religion has any less of a bloody past than does Communism or any other such movement?”</p>
<p>Absolutely not. Religious and political movements (capitalist and communist) have bloody pasts for which there are no excuses. Violent persecutions, purges and wars are disgusting displays of violence that all civilized human beings should find appalling. However, I don’t think anyone was trying to say that the communist movement was bloodier than religious movements. Commentators on this discussion thread were only trying to point out that violent pasts are not only unique to religious movements but also to political and atheist movements.</p>
<p>“Or can you say that religion is benevolent and has benifited mankind?”</p>
<p>Actually, yes I can. Despite violent atrocities, no one can say that religion has never played a positive role in human history. In fact, modern and historical pacifist movements have many of their philosophical roots in the peaceful sermons of Buddhism, Christianity and other faiths. We have to take note of both the negative and positive contributions religious and non-religious movements have had on society.</p>
<p>“Can you oppose killing of innocents and still stand by your religion?”</p>
<p>Yes, I can. As you know, I deeply oppose any slaying of human life for any reason. Human life is so precious and must be respected in all cases. As you may also know, I am a member of the Roman Catholic Church which is a denomination of Christianity. I can stand by my religion because Christianity deeply advocates non-violence and peace. Many will point out the great atrocities committed by Roman Catholics (both laity and religious members). First and foremost, we must condemn these violent calamities in every way possible. There is simply no justification or excuse. However, we must also take into account that the greatest, most influential Catholic leaders have apologized repeatedly over these historical atrocities that are irreconcilable with Catholic doctrine. In addition, I believe that all Catholics (including me) should vocally apologize for these catastrophes even if we had nothing to do with them. The Catholic Church is not defined by the actions or words of the pope, the cardinals or the bishops or by the intricate and elaborate edifices of St. Peter’s Basilica, but by the actions and words of all Roman Catholics. We have committed horrible, almost indescribable atrocities against our fellow human beings. And because of that all Catholics should apologize. There are no words or phrases that will describe my sadness over these unbearable to witness displays of human cruelty. From the bottom of my heart, I sincerely apologize for the actions of my Catholic brethren and I hope that all of you will accept my genuine apology.</p>