<p>Herbert Hoover. Grew up in Forest Grove Or with gparents. Home of George Fox College, Quaker.</p>
<p>I’m all up for a homebrew, but I am not leaving America anytime soon 
(Other than a scary week or two in NY during breaks to visit family!!)</p>
<p>Garland: I like your definition as “follower of Jesus” because I think it gets at the historical truth of his life. My definition of Christian as meaning “not Jewish (etc.)” was more cynical and gets into what I saw around me as a child. As I said, I was raised by atheists, but I went to church or temple with all of my friends on Sunday mornings. The definition then used was that if you weren’t Jewish, you must be Christian.</p>
<p>ILAHB–well, a couple of my near and dear relatives had a temporary lapse of good sense, and wandered into self-described America. They’re plotting their way back out, as fast as they can.</p>
<p>Too bad, though, that your self-made boundaries will deprive you of some seriously good ale, and mead, too.</p>
<p>As I get older, I think maybe there is God, but I am still not sure. My family moved to MN when we first came to this country. The only people we met were white, christians. We ended up celebrating Christmas and Easter because we thought xmas trees were really pretty and all those presents, Easter eggs (need I say more)… I think if we’ve moved to LI first we would have been Jewish - Hanukkah beats Christmas hands down (8 presents). I think it’s all in the marketing.</p>
<p>Cradle Episcopalian here who never met a “Christian” (evangelical) until we moved to the Southeast.</p>
<p>
Sounds like you’re almost Jewish, garland!</p>
<p>OP, I am a Jew. 100%. And I rarely post on political threads.</p>
<p>Oooh I wouldn’t know about the latter part. The Sharp Edge (I don’t know if its a PA chain or a national chain) has some mighty fine and exotic brew :)</p>
<p>I am a Christian - a follower of Jesus Christ</p>
<p>Well, Chedva, half my ancestors were. but as much as I honor my predecessors, I would have to say I am not Jewish. I think that there is a strain of “what must I do for others” in most religions, though buried under a lot of other junk that humanity adds on.</p>
<p>I am a Christian. I realize that there are Christians who might not think my beliefs really are Christian, just like there are Jews who judge other Jews & Muslims who judge other Muslims. It’s that aspect of organized religion I dislike. I AM a member of an organized religion, though. After being raised Catholic & not being a particularly good one, I joined the Methodist church (my H was raised Methodist). I am quite happy being Methodist. Our church is pretty liberal, just like I can sometimes be. The bottom line for me is that I am … in Garland’s wonderful words … a “follower of Jesus.” After reading the stories of Jesus, I find it difficult to believe that eternity (if it exists, and I do believe it does) is denied to people who have been exemplary followers simply because they didn’t say, “I believe in Jesus Christ.” I won’t pretend to know the truth. I leave that to God.</p>
<p>Kelsmom – Don’t know anything about the Methodists…but I liked your post especially:</p>
<p>“I find it difficult to believe that eternity (if it exists, and I do believe it does) is denied to people who have been exemplary followers simply because they didn’t say, “I believe in Jesus Christ.” I won’t pretend to know the truth. I leave that to God.”</p>
<p>Makes sense to me!</p>
<p>Sometime, my lesser self feels it is a disadvantage for me to come to Meeting. God often seems to take the opportunity of our worship to volunteer me for new assignments.</p>
<p>Last Sunday, there were no fewer than 11! “Wait, wait,” I exclaimed silently, “I need to get a piece of paper!”</p>
<p>To be fair, however, She never volunteers me for things of which I am not capable, even if I feel like screaming that I don’t have any more time!</p>
<p>While we are in Meeting, She is busy at Her desk, just divvying up the work.</p>
<p>mathmom: I belong to a religion that had to go to the Supreme Court to be recognized. (We take no stance on the existence of God, but do believe in Ethics.)</p>
<p>Can you please explain? I might be interested…</p>
<p>I’m a Christian, and do believe that one needs to accept Jesus’ sacrifice on the cross to be saved from an eternity separated from God. While I believe that the Bible is the Word of God, I don’t Bible thump. Even if I knew how to, that kind of thing would never go over well here in NJ! I believe that only God fully knows the human heart and He will one day judge who is His and who isn’t. </p>
<p>I dislike it intensely when Christians think that being Christian means one should hold certain political views or should engage in certain practices (like homeschooling one’s children or only eating organic food.)</p>
<p>Wasn’t Reagan Quaker?</p>
<p>Nixon was the Quaker.</p>
<p>Reagan apparently was a Presbyterian: [The</a> religion of President Ronald Reagan](<a href=“http://www.adherents.com/people/pr/Ronald_Reagan.html]The”>http://www.adherents.com/people/pr/Ronald_Reagan.html)</p>
<p>This page has a chart of the religions of all US Presidents:
[Religious</a> Affiliation of U.S. Presidents * Religion](<a href=“http://www.adherents.com/adh_presidents.html]Religious”>http://www.adherents.com/adh_presidents.html)</p>
<p>“Bible thumper” is a denigrating term for one faith group of which I am a member. Typically, “Bible thumper” is used in reference to “Evangelicals”, a loose term which encompasses most Protestant denominations and individual churches which are not members of the National Council of Churches (NCC). There are definitely some NCC churches which would also consider themselves to be Evangelical. If you are up for a long read, this is a good description of what it means to be an Evangelical: <a href=“How to Write an Essay on Religion: A Simple Guide!”>How to Write an Essay on Religion: A Simple Guide!; . Some Evangelical leaders take issue with this document and have not signed it. Reading about their concerns, I learned that they are over small parts of the 19 page document and typically about the clarity of some sections and how they might be misconstrued. Most Evangelicals would find themselves at least 90% in agreement with this document.</p>
<p>I suppose one could could use the term “Bible thumper” to refer to a street preacher. Fair enough. But what if one of you described your religion to a friend as many of you have done in this thread and that person said, “In the Bible, Jesus says, ‘I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.’ I am a Christian and I believe that.” Is she a Bible thumper because she referenced a verse in the Bible to describe her beliefs? Is that “off limits”? What if she continued to say, “I care about you, and I hope you will consider the claims of Jesus.”? What if she got carried away and really tried to convince you that what the Bible says is true? Is she then contemptible because she sought to persuade another person to believe what she believes to be true?</p>
<p>I don’t really care if someone calls me a Bible thumper, but I have to admit that it mystifies me that this is acceptable…especially in a forum like this one! I cannot think of another group which would ever be referred to in such an insulting way on cc. If they were, I feel sure that many would rise immediately in protest. Why is this not the case when the target is Evangelical/fundamentalist/right wing Christians?</p>
<p>I posted something similar to this in a thread a long time ago (it was the one about whether it was okay to post items of religious significance in a dorm room) and shortly after that the thread was removed (not necessarily due to my post). I wished it had not been. If my religion is the one pariah, I’d like to understand why that is.</p>
<p>Timely, I am of the opinion that we show our faith best in our works, rather than in our words. If I am a person others admire, perhaps they will want to know how I came to be the person I am. They may become interested in the faith that guides my life. How another person shares her faith is not my call, and I would not put her down for doing so. However, if she got carried away and tried to convince me, I would probably distance myself from her. I would find it annoying, to be truthful. Again, though, I would not put her down … and I hope that she would have the same respect for my differing views.</p>
<p>I belong to a religion that does not believe in Jesus. I grew up in a country where more than 90% of the population was Catholic, and Catholicism was the official religion. Mine was a tight-knit non-christian community.</p>
<p>From that perspective, let me answer Timely’s questions:</p>
<ul>
<li>What if one of you described your religion to a friend and that person said, “In the Bible, Jesus says, ‘I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.’ I am a Christian and I believe that.” Is she a Bible thumper because she referenced a verse in the Bible to describe her beliefs? Is that “off limits”?</li>
</ul>
<p>That’s perfectly fine. In the context of a conversation about religion, comparing notes is expected and perfectly natural.</p>
<ul>
<li>What if she continued to say, “I care about you, and I hope you will consider the claims of Jesus.”?</li>
</ul>
<p>I would thank her and politely ask her to keep those thoughts to herself.</p>
<ul>
<li>What if she got carried away and really tried to convince you that what the Bible says is true? Is she then contemptible because she sought to persuade another person to believe what she believes to be true?</li>
</ul>
<p>Her advances would be over the line.I would find her behavior arrogant and intolerant. I have my own beliefs and don’t want or need her to tell me that her beliefs are better than mine. If she persists, this might be the end our friendship.</p>
<p>timely:</p>
<p>“What if she got carried away and really tried to convince you that what the Bible says is true? Is she then contemptible because she sought to persuade another person to believe what she believes to be true?”</p>
<p>Answer: It would depend upon the delivery of the message. </p>
<p>A very dear friend of mine from childhood is a born again Christian and has been for many, many years. We don’t live near each other but we are in regular communication via visits, email, long phone talks. She is a wonderful person and is constantly professing her faith. It bothers some but not me because I love her very much. We were both raised Catholic and went to Catholic school together as children. I am a “lapsed” Catholic but very much believe in God. </p>
<p>We don’t often discuss religion or politics but it is definitely not “off limits.” She knows I have strong opinions and I know that she does. </p>
<p>I remember once going to a dedication ceremony at a church she belonged to when one of her sons was dedicated…(I think that was the word…he was an infant but it wasn’t a baptism.) The sermon was especially sexist and quite offensive to me. The characterization of working mothers…yes I have always been one…was very insulting and very disrespectful to women. I’m not sure of the specific Bible verses being referenced or the specific reference to Jesus but it was over-the-top. I actually left the service early…and honestly told my friend that I just wasn’t feeling well. I wasn’t. </p>
<p>I would never shut anyway down who tried to deliver a message in a respectful way…if I had time that is. I don’t, however, feel obligated to listen to everyone’s beliefs no matter how passionate the belief.</p>