How many strong EC do you need for very selective colleges?

Well, you can go with that or be strategic. Ime, after the eyes land on the big deal, they keep scanning for the rest.

I know some object to the idea of planning activities with an eye toward admissions. But kids do the same with academics. It can all lead to a more vibrant individual candidate. And, at a time when competition is fiercer each year. Plus, various activities kids take on are part of the experiences in their lives.Well chosen, they contribute to the growth and perspective, dimension.

The right strategy to win the lottery would be to buy all tickets. But it wouldn’t be wise.

A good strategy to get admitted to top colleges would be, while having a perfect academics, might be starting up a highly successful business, publish a popular novel and scientific journal, win all the academic Olympiads, becoming a D1 athlete and get elected to a public office while in the high school. Wise or not, it simply wouldn’t be possible to all that.

Winning Scholastic, YoungArts, and/or juried national exhibits alone is extremely energy and time consuming. She would have to stop at just being accepted to the main rounds, if she is also going to math / science camps, other competitions, and doing lots of volunteer and leadership. Fortunately, seems that things have been changed in her favor. She can just keep sculpting (and studying) and will get a decent top college shot with a non-art major. That’s a pretty good perspective.

I also think Stanford is looking for more people oriented people than some colleges. There’s a reason for their roommate question. It was the question my kiddo really couldn’t come up with a good answer for.

I believe so. Sadly it is tough to choose to become a people oriented person. Daughter is both trying it and rather enjoying it. But she needs a lot of recharge time alone in between. We didn’t notice that while homeschooling her, because she was never short in the recharge time in between people events.

"A good strategy to get admitted to top colleges would be, while having a perfect academics, might be starting up a highly successful business, publish a popular novel and scientific journal, win all the academic Olympiads, becoming a D1 athlete and get elected to a public office while in the high school. "

For good measure, tread water for three days in a row, and cook 30-minute brownies in 20 minutes as well. Because the competition is intense.

https://www-users.cs.york.ac.uk/susan/joke/essay.htm

I have 2 general questions for those that suggest kids chase depth AND breadth.

Have you yourself ever chased breadth and depth? How did that affect your lifestyle?
Do you have kids who did the same? How did that affect their lifestyle?

And a summary question:

Are you a cruel person? As you know, kids are young and impressionable, and they read CC. Is it right to increase the anxiety in them and cause them to have all kinds of mental health issues by piling on ever more pressure on them?

This is how the standard week of my son goes:

Mon-Friday:

  • 7:30 am alarm
  • 8 am school
  • 2:30 pm school end
  • 5 pm school sports or music end (mandatory)
  • 5:30 pm home
  • 6:30 pm homework start
  • 9 pm homework end (school gives 45 minutes of homework for each subject, though it takes him less)
  • 10 pm piano practice end (the national level piano players his age are practicing at least 3-4 hours a day)
  • 11 pm composition writing end
  • 11:30 pm bedtime

Saturday:

  • 9 am alarm
  • 10 am Conservatory Orchestra
  • 12 pm lunch break in conservatory
  • 1 pm Cello class
  • 2 pm Conservatory Chamber program
  • 4 pm home
  • 6 pm homework
  • 9 pm homework end
  • 10 pm piano practice end
  • 11 pm composition writing end
  • 11:30 pm bedtime

Sunday

  • No alarm, no work till noon
  • 3 pm homework end (school believes in 2 hours of homework per class in weekend, though it takes him less)
  • 3:30 pm piano class
  • 5:30 pm piano class end
  • 6 pm composition class
  • 8 pm composition class end
  • 8:30 pm home
  • 9:30 pm school journal work end
  • 2 hour free block for poetry and whatever else he does
  • 11:30 pm bedtime

How exactly can anything else be fitted into this schedule? He has a total of 12 hours each week in free time. I think a 10th grader should have that. He sleeps 8 hours a day and research clearly shows that kids his age should sleep 9. And he is supposed to chase more?

For goodness sake.

The two students I worked with that got into Stanford were introverts. One actually transferred out (and is much happier at the new school). The other one knew it was important to get involved (and is being very purposeful about it), and appears to be doing well.

“school believes in 2 hours of homework per class in weekend”

School is just worried if the students will get bored in weekend.

I think the current environment for HS kids is crazy and ultimately destructive to creativity. We’re not raising robots. There’s no chance to blow off steam and shoot the breeze. Weekends should be off limits to school.

“Is it right to increase the anxiety in them and cause them to have all kinds of mental health issues by piling on ever more pressure on them?”
I will answer that question if you will answer this one:
Does your kid really WANT to be in the Conservatory Orchestra and Chamber program? AND in a composition writing class, in addition ?
Because if I had tried to get my very smart ,as well as musically talented DS to agree to THAT kind of schedule, planned down to the MINUTE, he would have rebelled because it leaves NO time for him TO BE A KID . And enjoy life. And explore other interests that had NOTHING to do with getting into college, but turned out to be interesting things to mention in his essays.

The answer to your question is NO.

I did not let my quit his once a week 1 hr weekly piano lessons, which he began at age 5, even after most of his classmates had long given up on their music lessons. He ended up being the only white young man in an all Asian all female advanced piano class, taught by the toughest Russian teacher in the area.
And he did not practice as much as I would have wanted, but I knew he needed time to chill out each day in his room, where he was NOT monitored as to how much time he was spending on his homework or even if his homework, or piano practice as getting done- that was HIS job.
you want your kid to succeed AND be happy?
Start by treating her as a human being, instead of as a automoton.
sheesh…

And yes, Ds did very well when it came to College Admissions, getting into 2 Ivys and 10 highly selective colleges/ U’s.

in part cause he was not burned out by TRYING to get into highly selective colleges.

“Does your kid really WANT to be in the Conservatory Orchestra and Chamber program? AND in a composition writing class, in addition ?”

The answer is yes. He himself found these classes. We just pay for it.

There are many things that he doesn’t want to do. He was state level in squash, and he didn’t want to practice, so we said, give it up. He had the perfect score at AMC8 but has no further interest in math, so we said, give up the AMCs and Math Olympiads. He doesn’t want to think about college admissions, so we said, don’t. He hates preparing for standardized tests, so we said, never mind, go in cold. He wanted us to get him sports waivers in school so that he can do more music in school, so we did.

But he would kill for music. But, here’s the thing, he doesn’t want to be a musician. He knows that unless he devotes 12 hours a day to music he will never be good, so he doesn’t want to. But he wants to continue taking music lessons with the very top teachers, privately.

The plan is his, by the way. It’s written by him in a big white board in his room, and he executes to it (I think). Mostly, we don’t even know where he is as he takes Uber everywhere, to school, back, and to his music things. He just asks us for money every now and then. It’s a folly to think that all kids are alike. Some like structure. In MBTI terms, they are called strong J’s, and my son is an off the charts J.

The only thing we insist on is the bed time. Otherwise he would be up composing music all night. Not acceptable. He also wanted to take 6 courses in school, and we said no f’ing way, take 5. Take the bare minimum that you need to graduate. We are ALL about cutting load. He did insist on taking all honors and APs, and I wish I could talk him out of it. But the kid has a big ego and is super competitive.

If it were up to me, I would cut out the chamber music and the orchestra at the conservatory. I could cut out the cello as well. He is simply not national level there. I would then cut out any music in school. He got into the top level youth orchestra in the conservatory but that’s a travelling one with huge demand, so I said no. I then had a mutiny in my hand. If I were to cut out the rest of the music, there would be so much fighting at home that it won’t be worth it.

During summer he spends all his time in Tanglewood music camp and never even comes home. We just pay for it.

And on top of that he is supposed to add breadth? F’ that.

“School is just worried if the students will get bored in weekend.”

Not my son’s school. It is a real academic pressure cooker. The homework they give does extend the kids’ knowledge and research habits. So, it is justified.

However, I personally think that there has to be life beyond academics. But my son loves this school and has loads of friends here, so I can’t take him out and put him in a less pressure cooker school.

Also, the school doesn’t really expect the kids to go deep in ECs. That I think is the main breakdown in communications.

^^ I was joking of course. Daughter says that one of her teacher says this.

@SculptorDad - It turned out fine. He didn’t get into Stanford, but he did get into fine schools that looked at other parts of his application that showed he could indeed play well with others. (Since Stanford doesn’t allow extra recommendations they didn’t get to see the letters from the head of the computer firm he worked for. They loved him.) He’s at his dream job now, so I have no complaints about how it all played out.

@1Wife1Kid I suspect your kid will be fine. And no he doesn’t need to do more. My oldest had far less homework, but he spent a few hours a week except right before competions on his two school ECs. The rest of the time he lived and breathed computers. If he showed any breadth, it was the variety of stuff he did with CS.

Younger son was all breadth. His grades and scores weren’t quite at the level of older son, so he didn’t get into colleges that were quite as selective. He did highlight one of his outside the school ECs in a way that probably made it sound like there was more depth there than their actually was.

@mathmom, sounds great. good luck for your kids. I feel good that generally attitude in the thread is that, while some talented kids are trying for selective admissions, they understand the low chance and have perfectly fine alternatives, which I share too.

And by trying for selective admissions, parents are encouraging or support what the kids’ interest and talent is, rather than trying to put them in a prescribed set of activities such as a few leadership and volunteers, captain of a sports team and winning some science fares while also not neglecting arts, etc. etc, unless the kids wants to and has time and energy.

“The answer is yes. He himself found these classes. We just pay for it.”
OK, then.
Its time for you to relax as you are doing a great job supporting your kid.
His intelligence and his passion for music -will get him into many colleges.

are you ready for suggestions for colleges where he can major/ minor in music , perform in multiple music venues AND study an additional major?

Mathmom, Thanks. Some kids just find their own passion and live and breathe that. I don’t know whether that is right or wrong, but as a parent I won’t discourage that.

Menloparkmom, I am hardly stressed. I think the people who need to relax are those that keep pushing for depth AND breadth despite evidence to the contrary that elites colleges don’t require that.

I think it’s too early to talk about college suggestions. We will wait for a couple of years till he is in 12th grade.

Sometimes I forget how passionate mine has been. I just opened her art folder and there are 29 paintings in age 4 folder, 82 in age 5, 241 in age 6. Once in a while she would paint for 1~2 weeks doing nothing else but eating and sleeping, which she did little. At 7 and told me that, “If I decide to be an artist, there will be nothing you can do to prevent it.”

I don’t count drawings or notebooks of my middle son, but I know he has dozens of filled drawing notebooks, though he never took a formal art class. He sketched and drew characters for games, wrote little stories and poems, and so forth. He started college as a Fine Arts major, and immediately knew it was totally wrong for him. He is not an artist, but he is a storyteller and exceptionally creative. Right now, he’s trying on Cinema as a possible major, though he really likes to do literary analysis. Film critic or author seem better fits than game designer or movie maker.

Your daughter will figure it out.