<p>EMM1,
Thanks for your reply. </p>
<p>Here are the standardized test scores that support my view that top Division I privates are academic peers, for students and student-athletes alike, with the non-HYP Ivies .</p>
<p>Sorted by Critical Reading
730 Duke
720 Dartmouth
715 Brown
710 Columbia
710 Stanford
705 Rice
695 U Penn
695 Northwestern
680 Vanderbilt
675 Cornell
660 Notre Dame</p>
<p>Sorted by Math
735 Duke
730 Dartmouth
730 Stanford
730 Rice
725 Brown
725 U Penn
715 Northwestern
710 Columbia
710 Cornell
690 Vanderbilt
685 Notre Dame</p>
<p>Sorted by Total SAT
1465 Duke
1450 Dartmouth
1440 Stanford
1440 Brown
1435 Rice
1420 U Penn
1420 Columbia
1410 Northwestern
1385 Cornell
1370 Vanderbilt
1345 Notre Dame</p>
<p>Sorted by ACT
32 Rice
31.5 Duke
31.5 Notre Dame
31 U Penn
31 Dartmouth
31 Northwestern
30.5 Columbia
30.5 Stanford
30 Cornell
30 Brown
30 Vanderbilt</p>
<p>The numbers above are at the full institution level and do not directly address the issue of the weaker students per se, but you indicated that your perceptions are driven by impressions of the overall. IMO, a fair reading of these numbers has Stanford, Duke, Rice and maybe Northwestern as full statistical peers (or perhaps even selectively more) to Dartmouth, Columbia, U Penn, and Brown. I would also consider Vanderbilt and maybe Notre Dame as full statistical peers to Cornell. I think that the graduation numbers also substantiate this. Given the above data, I hope you can understand why I hesitate to accept the frequently stated impression that the Ivies are automatically stronger.</p>