The unforgiving (i.e. long) prerequisite sequences are more common in engineering majors than in most other majors. I.e. that is more of a function of the major, rather than the school.
I think lots of kids still go into eng with very basic math and science, maybe no calculus, and standard sciences, maybe only 2 sciences, and there are schools that are set up around co op programs that read much more like apprenticeships than degrees. Not all eng courses are selective.
@Alfonsia - Not sure what you are trying to say with regard to apprenticeships than degree comment. DS goes to Georgia tech. A co-op is not required to graduate. However most top engineering schools want kids to do co-ops. IMO that having done one will help in the eventual job search. And the pay in the meantime is pretty good.
Re: engineering student placed in remedial math course below calculus 1
Take some summer classes and rearrange your schedule. 8 semesters + a summer or two is more than enough time to figure it out.
@Niquii77 - but in my book that more than 4 years. Four years should only be 8 semesters of tuition.,
Our DD has a dual degree…engineering and biology. She did take the full organic chemistry sequence in the summer (on her dime) to keep within the four year criteria.
She never took calculus in high school.
She managed to graduate in four years.
DH did a co-op program. His actual in class semesters were eight…just like any other bachelors. But he had four co-op terms as well (some were summers) which made his actual start to end date longer. But he wasn’t paying for the co-op terms. (He actually took 12 years to get his degree…went for two years and then took seven off to do something different, then three more to finish…whew). But his parents only gave him tuition money for the equivalent of four years of study.
I don’t consider a semester to be the equivalent to a summer session. Here in Florida, summer sessions are a given*. If four years of 8 semesters is 120 credits, that’s the same as four years of 8 semesters and two summer sessions of 120 credits in my book.
*There are exceptions with any given policy.
I guess what I’m saying is when the parents are paying for it and planning for 4 years. They wouldn’t normally assume that kids would go in the summer too.
Niquii…maybe summer is an expectation at your college…but if it had been an expectation at either of my kid’s undergrad schools, they would not have applied there.
We paid the equivalent of four years of tuition, fees, room, board, transportation, and cell phone…and anything beyond that would not have been funded by us.
And the summer my kid took a full summer of courses…she took 15 credits…which was the same as if she had taken one full semester.
It is okay to have different books. In my state, it expects this of its students. So while your book may not include it, my book would.
A parent is able to plan for four years of only fall and spring. A parent is able to plan for fall, spring, and one summer. A parent is able to plan for a dropped class or two. Thats the beauty of tailoring a college budget to your child’s school, major, goals, and programs, along with what you’re able to provide.
A summer session at a semester system school is typically about half a semester long, with half the course load. So 8 semesters + 2 summer sessions is effectively like 9 semesters*. Note that this has both cost and career development implications for students, since needing a summer session of course work limits the possibilities for summer jobs to earn money and gain work experience (and the summer session also means tuition expense).
*And if it took 8 semesters + 2 summer sessions to complete 120 credits, that means that the student has been averaging light course loads, instead of the full 15 credit course loads.
You can define it as such, ucb. I am not going to go into an analysis about to implications of summer sessions and the lost wages of a student doing such and I don’t for whatever methodology you want to use to equate summer class to semesters. Our books are different.
Tailor your budget for what you want to include for however long you want to pay for.
Summer school is out of the question for my kid. That’s for study abroad and internships. It’s more important to balance grades and internships and 4 year graduation. Mine rather have high GPA and summer internships than graduate in 4 years. Luckily she goes to a cheap school.
Send them to a service academy.
Neither of mine went to service academies. Both graduated in four years.
Good advising, took full course load, followed the course sequences carefully, never failed a course, and established their major in a timely fashion.
Oldest D at CAL, graduated in 5 years, after changing majors. Middle D is at Yale, and 4 year graduation rate is roughly 96%, so we are relying on that figure. Youngest D starts at UCLA, and we are already assuming an extra semester or two. The next 3-4 years will be interesting with two kids in school, and us paying basically full retail–WTH–it’s just money.
We started with a question about whether we parents expect our kids to grad in about four years, depending on the program, major requirements, etc.
For the parents who are full pay, struggle to pay, or whose kids have scholarships with a 4-year cap (or an extra semester or year, depending on a major or coop,) this is a major consideration.
Your oldest daughter seems unusual for Berkeley these days, since 70% graduate in 4 years or fewer these days.
UCLA graduation rates:
69% in 4 years
88% in 5 years
81% in 12 quarters
89% in 13 quarters
Note the difference between the 4 year and 12 quarter rates. It looks like a non-trivial number of UCLA students take a quarter or more off school, needing only 12 quarters but more than 4 years.
Post #57, 12 quarters for UCLA does that include summer school? If not what’s the reason for the difference?
You ask the question like we, as parents, can choose. Maybe some of us, those who are paying out of current income, can agree to finance on a year by year basis. For some of us, there is only so much money, and when it’ stone it’s gone, doesn’t matter if the 5th year is needed for good reasons or foolish ones.