I’d contact a RE attorney tout suite.
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@busdriver11 this all should have been uncovered when the title search was done. That’s to show the title is clean…and no nonsense. Was this not done??
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I think MA is such a small state that it is hard to find an inexpensive area here. We have been looking to buy a piece of land for the last 2 years. We have not found the one we like in the price range we like yet.
Like I said I have followed this thread. I linked the article just because people have not posted the “how much” a number for some time. It’s got helpful responses.
There are a lot of people who have financial knowledge on this thread. I am not one of them. We’ve hired a financial planner and are comfortable with the one we chose.
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We were buying a share of a property from one of the owners and when they did the title search they discovered that the deceased spouse hadn’t put it in their trust. The surviving wife had to go to probate to get the title in her name. We pulled back our deposit and basically said let us know when you’re ready and we will see what we want at that time. It took a year.
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Apparently they didn’t discover this, and the escrow agent was going to accept an affidavit until she asked her manager today. What weird is that every indication we had was that we were dealing with the old LLC, even the offer was to the old LLC name, that they countered and we agreed upon. Do they not know the name of their own LLC?
I am not sure that they even filed their original LLC with the Secretary of State, there is no trace of a dissolved LLC with that name on the website. I wonder if they ever filed a report or even had a UBI number. My agent says it’s almost unbelievable that four people have no online or paper records of forming the original LLC. I don’t actually think this is a scam, someone has been paying significant property taxes for years, but WTH?
The escrow agent actually thinks this can be worked out in a week, but I don’t know how. I’m not ready to go to a real estate attorney yet, as this is obviously the sellers issue to deal with and I don’t even have access to their names, but it does seem that if title says they’ve figured it out and I have a buyers policy, we should be covered, right?
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Those title issues can certainly be surprises! When we were selling Mom’s condo the year after she passed, we learned of an issue that had happened 18 years earlier when Dad passed. At that time they were realigning the finances so that the condo would entirely be in Mom’s trust. But instead of transferring Dad’s 80% share, they transferred 80% of Dad’s share. Which left 16% ownership in his trust, which brother and I had inherited after Mom was gone and had been closed. No one realized it included partial condo ownership. We were scrambling to figure out how to get that 16% payment. But luckily our real estate lawyer was buddies with the title guy so they worked it out and the payment could all go directly to us.
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I’d be asking a real estate lawyer this question.
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I have zero desire to pay a real estate lawyer a bunch of money for a seller’s issue for a property I don’t even know if we’ll be able to purchase, nor to listen to him or her recite me the same thing I can read on the Alta title policy. I might, however, be able to get some free advice from my Met Life legal plan.
I think I’ll also go down and talk to the county tomorrow.
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I don’t know whether this will be comforting or scary, but we did everything with my parents’ estate via affidavits of heirship. Dad had a will, but local sibs couldn’t find it (I found it when mom died four years later in, gasp, the filing cabinet with all the important papers 
). They didn’t want to probate mom’s will either so we again did an affidavit of heirship.
We were able to sell the house after sending the AOH to the title company ahead of time and getting their OK. If it didn’t pass muster, they would’ve had us use their form and do it all over again. It’s not that complicated, but you have to get appropriate witnesses and things notarized, and I was trying to do it from three hours away because it seemed too much for my local sibs. The first one we did for dad was totally screwed up by my brother. I thought I would lose it when I discovered that after mom died.
Anyway, the house sold just fine. We didn’t have to get a new deed or anything. Since then, I’ve sent all the AOHs to the county where we have land to change ownership, and the country assured me that it was fine. The only issue they said might be if/when we go to sell the land. The buyer/lender might require a new deed. Makes me nervous not to just pay the money and get it done correctly, but I get outvoted.
Anyway, all that to say that, yeah, maybe it’s not a scam and just some people trying to do it on the cheap and figuring it all out and maybe not getting the best advice. I asked a lawyer friend about the land issue, and he said that he was shocked that we sold the house without issue. I think some people are more lock-down than others, and you have to determine your comfort level with what is presented.
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Nah, I don’t think it’s a scam. I can follow along that they purchased the property under ABC LLC in 2007, and that many years later, another ABC LLC popped up in the state (hence they must have disolved theirs), and shortly thereafter ABCD LLC popped up, with a name that has been paying property taxes on this property for several years. So these things match. I just find it hard to believe that people wouldn’t have any evidence of creating or dissolving an LLC. I have documents in my email from decades ago, and in my file folders from my childhood!
Glad it worked out for you guys, in the end, and that you didn’t lose your mind!
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Well, some might say that I didn’t have a lot to lose! lol But when I discovered four years later that my brother had filed with the county an affidavit that said our uncles were heirs to my dad’s estate and not his kids, I was furious. We had the money to do things the right way, but he and my sister insisted on doing everything on the cheap.
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Not a lawyer but seems to me most of these issues you all describe with transfer problems are avoiding with a living trust. There’s no negotiation or problem solving - so I’m told.
There’s Schwab article notes this too.
There must be a reason they’re very popular amongst the wealthy.
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@busdriver11 so these people created ABC LLC, but then it was disolved, and they created ABCD LLC, but they have NO records of this at all?
And the property belongs to ABC LLC? Is that what you are saying?
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My only home sales and purchases have been in NJ where you are required to have a real estate lawyer. I think that prevents last minute surprises (assuming the lawyer does his job).
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I live in a deeded, restricted homeowner’s association. The original association plat is confusing, and some - but not all - of the properties outside the subdivision & on a bordering main road are within the association. It blows my mind how often people don’t bother with title searches, then they get angry because “they didn’t know” that they are subject to association rules (the main sticking point seems to be no fences unless there is a pool, and pools must be in ground). Searches need to go back as far as possible, to avoid problems.
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Common back east. (The lawyer protection act!) In the vast majority of home sales, the title company search is fine as, in reality, they are on the ones on the hook if done incorrectly or an issue occurs.
Not necessarily. Just depends on who orders the title search and more importantly, when. The Title company could run the search on Day 1, just as an attorney could. Or, they could put the search in teh queue and run it later.
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Where I am, if you get a mortgage, you get title insurance for the mortgage company required. BUT I would suggest getting owners title insurance also…which protects you, the owner.
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Not a legal document, but an extremely helpful step to take is the Vial of Life forms, which is an essential health & medications form that you fill out, and then place in a small ziplock on your refrigerator with a corresponding decal. A small decal goes at your front door indicating to any EMT or first responders that this essential information is grab and go for them on the fridge.
You can include a health directive with that form as well.
Additionally, in many places you can register your phone number with 911 (in some areas this is through Community Connect). You file who lives at the home, specific health issues and functional health challenges (e.g. speech, hearing, sight) someone may have, and anything else to make 911 operators aware of. For example, one of my parents has aphasia and cognitive impairments, and if they were to call 911 they would not be able to get out more than one word (particularly under stress). For their household there are notes for a 911 operator:
Functional needs [Parent 1]:
-Parkinson’s
-[Their spouse, Parent 2] has speech+cognitive impairments.
-If [Parent 1] is incapacitated, contact immediately [adult children’s names & phones] Both have healthcare POA.Functional needs [Parent 2]:
-Cognitive Impairments, speech difficulties, hearing impairment (wears aids)
-Has difficulties with speech; [they] know to call 911 for an emergency, but will NOT be able to answer questions about what exactly is happening, or what kind of help is needed
-Please send emergency help ASAP as any call means [their spouse] is incapacitated"
p.s.
You don’t necessarily need to use Vial of Life decals, you could recreate that type of door notification, fridge forms, and bag on your own. The Vial of Life forms and decals are just made up already for you, and many senior communities purchase sets in bulk for their community members.
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Same here. In addition, our passive income from investments have increased, making our AGI much more than when we were working. If you have good investments, you shouldn’t worry so much.
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Some states (example New York) use a document called and MOLST. It’s often preferred by hospitals and senior care facilities.
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